Mayflower District Court
#jamesgardai-v-city-of-lander-police-department-et-al
This is the start of #jamesgardai-v-city-of-lander-police-department-et-al channel.
shah 2025-04-17 10:39 a.m.
shah pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
shah 2025-04-17 10:40 a.m.@who
shah 2025-04-17 10:40 a.m.@Fish
shah used /add
clerkFlow Bot2025-04-17 10:40 a.m. @shah has added @Fish to the case channel.
Case Modified
who 2025-04-17 12:41 p.m.@Fish do you have a civil complaint?
who
Fish 2025-04-17 02:32 p.m.
Arbitration order that needs to be enforced
Fish 2025-04-17 02:32 p.m.MAYFLOWER DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE LANDER, M.F. 13500 April 13th, 2025 ORDER ON ARBITRATION CLAIM AGAINST LANDER CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT FROM: STATE ATTORNEY NATIONGREAT TO: LANDER CITY POLICY DEPARTMENT CAPTAIN COPISTS SUBJECT: ARBITRATION ORDER RELATING TO EMPLOYMENT OF JAMESGARDAI WITHIN LCPD’... 
Fish 2025-04-17 02:32 p.m.
doj told me to file since lcpd not complying
FishArbitration order that needs to be enforced
who 2025-04-17 02:33 p.m.
You need a civil complaint
who 2025-04-17 02:34 p.m.
There is no statute or rule that allows an action to commence on the basis of an arbitration order with the Department of Justice
who 2025-04-17 02:34 p.m.
So you'll need to file a civil complaint to commence a civil action
Fish 2025-04-17 02:37 p.m.
lemme talk to doj
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-17 04:31 p.m.
hello
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-17 04:31 p.m.
appearing for the SGO
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-17 04:31 p.m.@who
Fish 2025-04-17 04:50 p.m.@who ill file it soon
BrendaPopplewellappearing for the SGO
who 2025-04-17 05:03 p.m.
Appearing for the plaintiff, appearing to intervene, appearing for the defendant?
who 2025-04-17 05:03 p.m.
I don't know
who 2025-04-17 05:03 p.m.
file an appearance
who 2025-04-17 05:03 p.m.
Or don't
who 2025-04-17 05:03 p.m.
There's no case to really appear to yet
who 2025-04-17 05:03 p.m.
But I'll let you file an appearance provided the plaintiff files a complaint
who 2025-04-17 05:04 p.m.
Or if you're appearing for the plaintiff, again, I have no clue
who 2025-04-17 05:08 p.m.
Make sure you make filings on the website. @Fish
Fish 2025-04-17 10:00 p.m.
ill submit it tmrw
Fish 2025-04-18 07:44 p.m.@who It's submitted onthe website
Fish 2025-04-18 07:44 p.m.
here's ac opy
Fish 2025-04-18 07:44 p.m.
Fish 2025-04-18 07:44 p.m.
I believe the DOJ and I will be entering a consent judgment
FishI believe the DOJ and I will be entering a consent judgment
who 2025-04-18 07:49 p.m.
Who do you want to be summoned?
Fish 2025-04-18 07:49 p.m.
the defendants and sgo but i think sgo waived summons
Fishthe defendants and sgo but i think sgo waived summons
who 2025-04-18 07:50 p.m.
Did you file the complaint on the court website?
FishFish 2025-04-18 07:50 p.m.
yes...
who 2025-04-18 07:50 p.m.
Okay
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 07:52 p.m.
We waive summons. I'll file a notice of appearance shortly.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 07:52 p.m.@who @Fish
BrendaPopplewellWe waive summons. I'll file a notice of appearance shortly.
who 2025-04-18 07:52 p.m.
Okay
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 08:24 p.m.
The Government hereby files its notice of appearance for the LPD and Copists.
cc:@who @Fish @Nicklaus
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who 2025-04-18 08:27 p.m.
Okay
who 2025-04-18 08:28 p.m.
We await the state's pleading then @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:18 p.m.
The Government hereby files its Answer to Plaintiff's Complaint.
cc:@who @Fish @Nicklaus
129.51 KB
who 2025-04-18 09:19 p.m.
I have to question if the Plaintiff and State are acting in concert here @Brenda
who 2025-04-18 09:19 p.m.
Is there a controversy here to be solved or does the state want me to enforce a prior decision made by the state?
whoIs there a controversy here to be solved or does the state want me to enforce a prior decision made by the state?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:23 p.m.
Your honor,
During arbitration, the Government's Claims Office found, after opportunity for hearing by the Lander Police Department and James_Gardai, that there was a breach of contract by the LCPD.
The Solicitor General's Office has independently reviewed the case and the evidence submitted, and we believe that relief would be proper in this case.
That is the only reason we're pleading liability.(edited)
During arbitration, the Government's Claims Office found, after opportunity for hearing by the Lander Police Department and James_Gardai, that there was a breach of contract by the LCPD.
The Solicitor General's Office has independently reviewed the case and the evidence submitted, and we believe that relief would be proper in this case.
That is the only reason we're pleading liability.(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:23 p.m.
We are not doing so on behalf of Copists—he, of course, has a right to due process and we wouldn't wanna deprive him of that in any way.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:23 p.m.
But for the claim against the LCPD, we're not contesting.
BrendaPopplewellYour honor, During arbitration, the Government's Claims Office found, after opportunity for hearing by the Lander Police Department and James_Gardai, that there was a breach of co...(edited)
who 2025-04-18 09:24 p.m.
Is the State acting in concert with the Plaintiff, though?
who 2025-04-18 09:24 p.m.
Was there prior discussion regarding this claim that led to it bring brought here?
who 2025-04-18 09:24 p.m.
Is this a friendly suit?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:25 p.m.
I've not talked to James_Gardai before and he's not made any agreement with the SGO
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:25 p.m.
He did ask what the next step would be
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:25 p.m.
And he was informed that he'd have to file suit
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:25 p.m.
But neither I nor the Solicitor General have been in direct communication with him
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:26 p.m.
I want to make it very clear that I'm not merely following the arbitration order
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:27 p.m.
This is not a decision that was made lightly, so to say
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:27 p.m.
I've conducted an independent review
who 2025-04-18 09:27 p.m.
When there was an arbitration order, the LCPD was ordered to reinstate him, yes?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:28 p.m.
Yes, I can link the order if you'd like
who 2025-04-18 09:28 p.m.
Please do
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:28 p.m.
who 2025-04-18 09:34 p.m.
The Plaintiff alleges a breach of contract under 5 M.S.C. 1 § 3102.3. Does the State contend that the LCPD has statutory and independent authority to enter into contracts? @Brenda
whoThe Plaintiff alleges a breach of contract under 5 M.S.C. 1 § 3102.3. Does the State contend that the LCPD has statutory and independent authority to enter into contracts? <@111828...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:38 p.m.
We do believe the LCPD has that power by necessity.
The contract at issue is an employment contract. Without the power to enter such contracts, the LCPD would have next to no employees. So we definitely think that power exists.
The contract at issue is an employment contract. Without the power to enter such contracts, the LCPD would have next to no employees. So we definitely think that power exists.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:38 p.m.
There's likely something, somewhere, in the State Code on that topic
who 2025-04-18 09:41 p.m.@Fish is it your position that the LCPD can enter into contracts that bind the State?
Fish 2025-04-18 09:41 p.m.
Ye
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:45 p.m.@who Quick advisory. 3 MSC §2202, I believe, enumerates that power
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:46 p.m.
Just to be clear, this is only for employment contracts
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:46 p.m.
When an agency employs a person, that is a contract (whether expressly or implied)
who 2025-04-18 09:47 p.m.
This is my problem here @Fish
You are bringing a breach of contract action without alleging the facts showing the formation of a contract with the Defendant. Typically in an action like this, you need to plead to the existence of a valid contract. This means supporting each element of a contract.
You are bringing a breach of contract action without alleging the facts showing the formation of a contract with the Defendant. Typically in an action like this, you need to plead to the existence of a valid contract. This means supporting each element of a contract.
who 2025-04-18 09:47 p.m.
You allege a contract, yes, but I do not see the essential elements of that contract being alleged to exist.
who 2025-04-18 09:50 p.m.
This is foundational to bringing this sort of claim to a court.
Fish 2025-04-18 09:50 p.m.
can i just amend
who 2025-04-18 09:51 p.m.
You can amend the complaint to include support for the essential elements of the alleged contract.
whoYou allege a contract, yes, but I do not see the essential elements of that contract being alleged to exist.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 09:53 p.m.
Which element(s) is currently missing?
Fish 2025-04-18 09:54 p.m.
yh Can i know what's missing
BrendaPopplewellWhich element(s) is currently missing?
who 2025-04-18 09:54 p.m.
Legality of purpose, legal capacity, mutual assent between himself and the LCPD itself, and acceptance by the LCPD itself.
who 2025-04-18 09:55 p.m.
There needs to be support establishing these elements of the alleged contract for the court to find that a contract exists here.
Fish 2025-04-18 10:04 p.m.
Fish 2025-04-18 10:05 p.m.
Paragraphs 14-20 regard the Formation of the Contract
who 2025-04-18 10:05 p.m.@Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:07 p.m.
Looks good to me. Do we need to file an amended answer?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:07 p.m.@who
BrendaPopplewellLooks good to me. Do we need to file an amended answer?
who 2025-04-18 10:08 p.m.
You should plead to an amended complaint, yes.
who 2025-04-18 10:09 p.m.
Now, the LCPD also wants to appear here. What is the state's position on that?
whoNow, the LCPD also wants to appear here. What is the state's position on that?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:09 p.m.
I've informed Vohesia that, as a legal advisor, she doesn't have the power to represent the state in litigation. That power is reserved, by law, for the Solicitor General's Office and Attorney General.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:10 p.m.
She can represent Copists—but not the LCPD.
who used /add
clerkFlow Bot2025-04-18 10:10 p.m. @who has added @voh ౨ৎ to the case channel.
Case Modified
who 2025-04-18 10:10 p.m.
You can plead to the amended complaint @Fish
Fish 2025-04-18 10:10 p.m.
wat
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:10 p.m.
Thank you. The Department does not believe, as the Court has pointed out, that the Department's interests are being properly served by @Brenda and the Solicitor Generals office.
who 2025-04-18 10:10 p.m.
On behalf of Copists
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:11 p.m.
Indeed, we have a belief that the Defendant and the Solicitor General's Office are acting in concert in this matter.
Fish 2025-04-18 10:11 p.m.
Let the record reflect that voheisa is an alternate account of mandatorymorale.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:11 p.m.
I will file intervenor status if the court so requests.
Fishwat
who 2025-04-18 10:11 p.m.
Wrong person
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:11 p.m.
The State's interest will always be to the law. We've determined that it is equitable to grant relief, and that is the only reason we plead liability.
who 2025-04-18 10:11 p.m.
You can plead on behalf of Copists. @voh ౨ৎ
FishLet the record reflect that voheisa is an alternate account of mandatorymorale.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:11 p.m.
I don't know why you have the need to start throwing baseless accusations.
who 2025-04-18 10:12 p.m.
If you plead on behalf of Copists in a manner different than the State this will end up in trial and you are free to argue for any fact @voh ౨ৎ
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:12 p.m.@who I'm puzzled on how Copists is being sued under an individual claims tort for actions the Plaintiff alleges were carried out in his official capacity..?
voh ౨ৎwho 2025-04-18 10:12 p.m.
You are free to argue to that.
who 2025-04-18 10:12 p.m.
In your pleadings or otherwise
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:13 p.m.
Thank you, Your Honor.
who 2025-04-18 10:13 p.m.
If you want to file for intervention for the LCPD you're free to file
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:13 p.m.
The Government hereby files its Amended Answer.
cc:@who @Fish
voh ౨ৎFish 2025-04-18 10:13 p.m.
5 M.S.C. 1 § 3212.2 allows me
who 2025-04-18 10:14 p.m.
This is not a place for cross-party communication @Fish
who 2025-04-18 10:14 p.m.
Same for you @voh ౨ৎ
whoIf you want to file for intervention for the LCPD you're free to file
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:14 p.m.
This poses a quagmire of sorts. @Brenda claims to represent the City of Lander Police by virtue of their power of the State, yet I too represent the City of Lander Police and seek intervention.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:14 p.m.
How would the Court like this resolved?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:14 p.m.
We hereby offer judgment against the LCPD and we ask that the Court decide on whether that is equitable with the amended complaint.
cc:@who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:14 p.m.
We're amenable to an evidentiary hearing, etc.
BrendaPopplewellWe hereby offer judgment against the LCPD and we ask that the Court decide on whether that is equitable with the amended complaint. cc: @who
who 2025-04-18 10:14 p.m.
Let us wait for the response from the co-defendant.
who 2025-04-18 10:15 p.m.
If there are facts in potential dispute then I will not take the facts alleged by the Plaintiff at face value as I would if you were the Defendant here.
who 2025-04-18 10:15 p.m.
Sole defendant, rather.
voh ౨ৎThis poses a quagmire of sorts. @Brenda claims to represent the City of Lander Police by virtue of their power of the State, yet I too represent the City of Lander P...
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:15 p.m.
CC @who , Your Honor
Fish 2025-04-18 10:16 p.m.@who Can the court clarify who voheisa is representing?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:16 p.m.
Vohesia is representing Copists.
Fishwho 2025-04-18 10:16 p.m.
Mr. Copists, with the permission of the SGO.
Fish 2025-04-18 10:16 p.m.
well they're sayin gthat they represent the department
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:16 p.m.
I am the Deputy Commissioner for Legal Affairs of the City of Lander Police, yes.
voh ౨ৎThis poses a quagmire of sorts. @Brenda claims to represent the City of Lander Police by virtue of their power of the State, yet I too represent the City of Lander P...
who 2025-04-18 10:16 p.m.
You can file for intervention and I will determine whether or not you are a proper intervenor on that motion
whoYou can file for intervention and I will determine whether or not you are a proper intervenor on that motion
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:16 p.m.
Thank you.
who 2025-04-18 10:17 p.m.
I won't determine the result of a motion before I've read it
who 2025-04-18 10:17 p.m.
Afterall, I am an officer of both immense impartiality and authority.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:17 p.m.
Unwaivering, indeed.
whoYou can file for intervention and I will determine whether or not you are a proper intervenor on that motion
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:17 p.m.
I'm not sure intervenor is the right mechanism. Ms. Vohesia is attempting to usurp the prerogative of the Solicitor General in defending the state.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:17 p.m.
A power that is exclusively conferred on him by statute.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:17 p.m.
She's not alleging that the LCPD needs to be made the defendant—they already are.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:18 p.m.
She's alleging that she is entitled to appear as though she is the SGO.
who 2025-04-18 10:18 p.m.
I don't know what she is alleging as I have no motion on my docket
who 2025-04-18 10:18 p.m.
So we will have to see what she is alleging when there is a motion on my docket for me to determine whatever it is you're talking about
who 2025-04-18 10:19 p.m.
Afterall, we live in the present. I have no knowledge of any future written motions.
BrendaPopplewellWe hereby offer judgment against the LCPD and we ask that the Court decide on whether that is equitable with the amended complaint. cc: @who
who 2025-04-18 10:21 p.m.
Back to this, I will not grant judgement in this manner if it is based on factual claims that may be opposed by the co-defendant. The court won't make findings of fact in the same manner as the defendant having admitted to the facts if there is a co-defendant who has not yet plead.
whoBack to this, I will not grant judgement in this manner if it is based on factual claims that may be opposed by the co-defendant. The court won't make findings of fact in the same ...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:22 p.m.
Would the Court be amenable to a consent judgment without a finding of fact.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:22 p.m.
That is the traditional way they're made
who 2025-04-18 10:22 p.m.
You can propose a consent judgement in written form.
whoBack to this, I will not grant judgement in this manner if it is based on factual claims that may be opposed by the co-defendant. The court won't make findings of fact in the same ...
Fish 2025-04-18 10:22 p.m.
what if i just drop copists as a defendant
Fish 2025-04-18 10:23 p.m.
nvm
who 2025-04-18 10:23 p.m.
You can make a motion
Fish 2025-04-18 10:23 p.m.
Yeah but we can do consent judgment like Brenda said
who 2025-04-18 10:23 p.m.
I couldn't possibly determine whether or not consent judgement would be granted without first seeing the proposed consent judgement
who 2025-04-18 10:24 p.m.
As, again, I am unable to read or determine the validity of motions written in the future
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:26 p.m.
Your Honor, I would ask the Court to verify @Brenda s authority to serve as representation in this matter before a motion to intervene is filed.
Fishwhat if i just drop copists as a defendant
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:26 p.m.
I mean, you can file notice of dismissal but you'd be waiving monetary damages
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:26 p.m.
(as to that count)
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:26 p.m.
As it stands, I do not believe they are the legitemate representation of either the Department nor Mr. Copists, and I believe the Court may have erred in the acceptance of their Appearance.
voh ౨ৎAs it stands, I do not believe they are the legitemate representation of either the Department nor Mr. Copists, and I believe the Court may have erred in the acceptance of their Ap...
who 2025-04-18 10:27 p.m.
Where does this belief stem?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:27 p.m.
Well, Your Honor, in their Notice of Appearance, they cited two authorities. " MSC 1 §8211" (Which does not exist), and 5 MSC 1 §3209.3.
who 2025-04-18 10:28 p.m.
Counselor? @Brenda
whoCounselor? @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:28 p.m.
There's a missing number. That would be 3 MSC 1 §8211
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:28 p.m. 
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:28 p.m.
If that is so, can we have documentation that you have been sent by the Attorney General to attend to this matter?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:29 p.m.
And if that is further so, then I believe the Court would require a motion to intervene with good showing that the State of Mayflower has interest in this matter, would it not? @who
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:29 p.m.
As it stands, the only officer of the court who has been chosen by both the Court and Mr. Copists to serve as counsel is myself.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:29 p.m.
That is untrue.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:29 p.m.
There are a multitude of statutes on this. The Solicitor General is charged with defending the state.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:30 p.m.
This case is one against the state.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:30 p.m.
We don't need to intervene when the state is already a defendant to the case.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:30 p.m.
Ok, yet in your Notice of Appearance the only two authorities you cited as a baseline for your appearance are inapplicable, sir.
voh ౨ৎIf that is so, can we have documentation that you have been sent by the Attorney General to attend to this matter?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:30 p.m.
-
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:31 p.m. 
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:31 p.m.
I don't need to cite the entirety of the state code.
BrendaPopplewellClick to see attachment.
who 2025-04-18 10:31 p.m.
This applies to employees, yes?
BrendaPopplewellClick to see attachment.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:31 p.m.
Can you provide what "such damage or injury" is?
whoThis applies to employees, yes?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:31 p.m.
Yes, that would be for Copists.
who 2025-04-18 10:31 p.m.
You are not here defending Mr. Copists?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:31 p.m.
That is correct. I'm merely referring to my initial NoA.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:32 p.m.
There are other statutes on the subject
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:32 p.m.
But it is common knowledge—and the accepted practice—that the SGO represents the state
voh ౨ৎIf that is so, can we have documentation that you have been sent by the Attorney General to attend to this matter?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:32 p.m.
And this is department policy @who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:32 p.m.
If you want, we can swear in the Attorney General
who 2025-04-18 10:32 p.m.
The co-defendant has requested you elucidate the court no those statutes, so you may do so. There is no harm in establishing your legal authority to be here. This would only increase the strength of your representation.
who 2025-04-18 10:33 p.m.
To those, rather.
who 2025-04-18 10:33 p.m.
I am sure that the Office of the Solicitor General has this material on hand, as it is the premier legal practice in the State.
whoThe co-defendant has requested you elucidate the court no those statutes, so you may do so. There is no harm in establishing your legal authority to be here. This would only increa...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:33 p.m.
It is department policy that the SGO represents all suits. If the Court finds it necessary, we can bring in the Attorney General for an evidentiary hearing on that subject
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:34 p.m.
I'm sure he'll testify that we're, as we have done in all cases, charged with representing the state
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:34 p.m.
Your Honor, if Mx. @Brenda is relying on 3 MSC 1 §8211, wherein xe was dispatched here to attend to the interests of the State by the attorney general, would that not require some form of interventionary motion?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:34 p.m.
To establish that indeed the State has interest and ze were indeed dispatched by the Attorney General to attend to it
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:35 p.m.
By mentioning those laws, I'm not waiving my right to invoke others
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:35 p.m.
I merely mentioned them for clarity's sake
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:35 p.m.
The State is a defendant to this action. Intervention exists to become a defendant
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:35 p.m.
And the SGO represents the state
who 2025-04-18 10:35 p.m.
This is a valid point. @Brenda if you wish to rely on 8211, please provide the court with information concluding you have been sent by the Attorney General to attend to the interests of the State, and whatever those interests may be.
BrendaPopplewellAnd the SGO represents the state
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:36 p.m.
Neither of us disagree the City of Lander Police is a defendant. Yet both myself and the Court have asked you provide what exactly allows you and the SGO to represent the CLPD in this matter
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:36 p.m.
Like any building, a foundation (in this case based in statute) is needed, or else everything above crumbles!
who 2025-04-18 10:36 p.m.
Your representation would be limited to the "interests of the State of Mayflower" in this action under 8211, so those interests need to be established, alongside the fact the Attorney General has sent for you.
who 2025-04-18 10:37 p.m.
You are free to appear under a like statute if there is one.
whoThis is a valid point. @Brenda if you wish to rely on 8211, please provide the court with information concluding you have been sent by the Attorney General to attend...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:37 p.m.
He has sent me by virtue of established department policy... that he has made.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:37 p.m.
Like I said, we can bring him right now to testify.
BrendaPopplewellHe has sent me by virtue of established department policy... that he has made.
who 2025-04-18 10:37 p.m.
As for the other information?
whoAs for the other information?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:37 p.m.
I'm no longer representing Copists, so that's moot at this point in time.
who 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
The interests of the state in this matter?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
Oh
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
Your Honor, given that Mx. @Brenda currently has not established grounds to appear as grounded in her initial notice, we ask that she be removed from representation until such time as a hearing can be scheduled to determine the veracity of her claims to be able to represent the City of Lander Police.
who 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
You are here to represent the "interests of the state."
who 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
What are the interests of the state?
whoThe interests of the state in this matter?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
The state is a party to this case—and the relief, injunctive and declaratory relief, is relief against the state.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
Of course, the state has interests where it is a defendant.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
I disagree, Your Honor.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
The City of Lander is a party to this suit.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
Only municipal actors, not state actors, have been alleged in this complaint.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:38 p.m.
Only municipal bodies politic, not state bodies, have been so sued.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
The LCPD is a state body
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
There is no municipal bodies in mayflower
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
It is established by state law
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
Really?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
Yes, AlbertWellesley made that holding recently
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
Can you point to where in state law the City of Lander Police is established?
voh ౨ৎCan you point to where in state law the City of Lander Police is established?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
Sure!
who 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
I do agree with Mrs. Popplewell, the LCPD is facially a municipal body provided the definition of municipality under the Constitution of the State.
who 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
Rather, state body.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:39 p.m.
(3 MSC 2 §1206(c))
who 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.
There are no municipal bodies to my knowledge
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.@who Point of order real quick
whoThere are no municipal bodies to my knowledge
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.
There is a active charter for the County of Clark, actually, Your Honor.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.
And one for the Township of Woodbury.
BrendaPopplewellwho 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.
Okay
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.
I believe there is a rattified charter for the great City of Lander too.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.
I can find it if Your Honor would so wish
who 2025-04-18 10:40 p.m.
Sure
whoOkay
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:41 p.m.
"If the Solicitor General refuses to defend an agent of the government, then that agent shall be liable for the equitable offenses in his individual capacity, and the government shall cease to be a party and have interest in the case." 5 MSC 1 §3202.9(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:41 p.m.
Since we're refusing to defend Copists, the Court is empowered to grant equitable relief
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:41 p.m.
and dismiss the government as a party
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:41 p.m.
And Vohesia can take it from there by representing Copists
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:41 p.m.
(against the money damages)
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:41 p.m.
It feels like all Mx. @Brenda is trying to do is skirt responsibility here and give the Defendant everything they want, contrary to the interests of both the Department and Mr. Copists.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
Our interests is to the law.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
I would also ask the Court remind Mx. @Brenda to refrain from editing messages
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
They are an experienced attorney and should know better then to alter court record
voh ౨ৎI would also ask the Court remind Mx. @Brenda to refrain from editing messages
Fish 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
That was a typo
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
It's allowed in most courtrooms
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
I'll apologize if that's not the case in this courtroom
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
Well, we'll never know what it was, because you changed the record
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
Will we
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
There's logs
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
Trust me
who 2025-04-18 10:42 p.m.
What is the equitable relief sought of Mr. Copists?
who 2025-04-18 10:43 p.m.
In specific?
whoWhat is the equitable relief sought of Mr. Copists?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:43 p.m.
I believe specific performance of the contract
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:43 p.m.
That they give him the job he was promised under the agreement
BrendaPopplewellThat they give him the job he was promised under the agreement
who 2025-04-18 10:43 p.m.
They, or Mr. Copists?
Fish 2025-04-18 10:43 p.m. 
who 2025-04-18 10:43 p.m.
Defendants, co?
whoThey, or Mr. Copists?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:43 p.m.
Well, actions for equitable relief against an officer are against the entity the officer works for
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:44 p.m.
There's some well-settled precedent on that
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:44 p.m.
I can get that in a moment
who 2025-04-18 10:45 p.m.
Mrs. Popplewell, you would find that I am unlikely to grant this relief. If equitable relief against Mr. Copist would result in the defacto relief by the LCPD, this is inappropriate. The claims here are too conjoined to do this.
who 2025-04-18 10:45 p.m.
Relief against Mr. Copist alone would bind the LCPD - highly prejudicial to them.
whoMrs. Popplewell, you would find that I am unlikely to grant this relief. If equitable relief against Mr. Copist would result in the defacto relief by the LCPD, this is inappropriat...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:45 p.m.
JamesGardai pleads an action against Mr. Copists in his individual and official capacities, though.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:45 p.m.
That's the purpose of quasi-official liability.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:46 p.m.
Under Kentucky v. Graham, "a judgment against a public servant in his official capacity' imposes liability on the entity that he represents" Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159 (1985)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:46 p.m.
(and other cases)
BrendaPopplewellJamesGardai pleads an action against Mr. Copists in his individual and official capacities, though.
who 2025-04-18 10:47 p.m.
Yes. He makes claims against Mr. Copist and the LCPD. These are separate claims; however, they are co-defendants in this action. As such, any relief granted must be consistent with principles of joint adjudication and must not create irreconcilable obligations between the defendants. I cannot grant relief that would impose liability on one defendant in a manner that is legally incompatible with the findings as to the other.
who 2025-04-18 10:48 p.m.
Mr. Copists cannot be seperated from this action, relief granted will be against both, neither, or one based on the facts and law present here.
who 2025-04-18 10:48 p.m.
I cannot grant relief againts Mr. Copist that would bind the LCPD without also finding the LCPD is to be bound.
Fish 2025-04-18 10:48 p.m.
so what if i discharge copists as a defendant
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:48 p.m.
I suppose the easiest would be, as Mr. Gardai suggests, to drop the count against Copists.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:48 p.m.
So this can proceed as one against the state
who 2025-04-18 10:49 p.m.
You are free to drop Mr. Copists, however, you do make claims against Mr. Copists. Mr. Copists has interests here that he is free to intervene regarding. I am simply saying that now as to avoid the confusion of this matter.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:49 p.m.
It feels like both parties are actively colluding
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:49 p.m.
Rather then serving as adversarial parties to this proceeding
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:49 p.m.
That's the vibe I'm getting here
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:50 p.m.
We've conceded liability—the "vibe" is that there's nothing to contest.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:50 p.m.
We won't mislead the court on issues of law or fact.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:50 p.m.
If you are really representing the City of Lander Police and Mr. Copists, your representation has been wholly ineffectual
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:50 p.m.
Can you tell the Court how long you spent from getting this case to filing your answer?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:51 p.m.
You're representing Copists.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:51 p.m.
And how many times you have contacted an official of the Department to discuss this case, or even contacted Mr. Copists?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:51 p.m.
I'm representing the Government.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:51 p.m.
I can answer for both. Mx. @Brenda has not contacted any officer of the CLPD about this matter. They filed their answer mere hours after recieving this.
voh ౨ৎAnd how many times you have contacted an official of the Department to discuss this case, or even contacted Mr. Copists?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:51 p.m.
I reviewed the LCPD's comments during arbitration, the evidence submitted, and the current complaint.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:51 p.m.
And the answer was made after a meticilous independent review.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:52 p.m.
There's no collusion and JamesGardai and I have 0 DMs related to this case.
who 2025-04-18 10:52 p.m.
Mrs. Popplewell, the co-defendant has the right to question the efficiency of the defense of the defendant if your interests are conflicting.
Fish 2025-04-18 10:52 p.m.@who I discharge copists as a defendant
Fish 2025-04-18 10:52 p.m.
can voheisa be removed
whoMrs. Popplewell, the co-defendant has the right to question the efficiency of the defense of the defendant if your interests are conflicting.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:52 p.m.
Sure, but the Government's interests is to the law. It's always to the law.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:52 p.m.
I believe in a duty of candour.
voh ౨ৎAnd how many times you have contacted an official of the Department to discuss this case, or even contacted Mr. Copists?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:52 p.m.
Your Honor, I would respectfully ask that you have the "counsel" for the defendant answer this.
Fishwho 2025-04-18 10:53 p.m.
Do you think your claims against Mr. Copists are severable from your claims against the LCPD at this stage, concerning your factual allegations against both?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:53 p.m.
Our interests are inextricably tied in this matter, Mx. @Brenda , yet it seems you are doing a better job of advocating for those of the Defendant then your own clients.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:53 p.m.
Client*
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:53 p.m.
I represent the Government. Not Copists.
who 2025-04-18 10:53 p.m.
Civility, please. @voh ౨ৎ @Brenda @Fish
BrendaPopplewellI represent the Government. Not Copists.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
So you don't represent Mr. Copists in his official capacity?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
Then on what standing are you here?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
I represent the Government—the LCPD.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
Which is a defendant
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
To this action
who 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
My question for the Plaintiff, if you were to remove Mr. Copists as a Defendant in this matter, do you think there may be a failure to join? @Fish
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:54 p.m.
I ask we circle back to the matter of not Mx. @Brenda efficacy of representation, but the mere matter of their appearance here in the first place. @who
who 2025-04-18 10:55 p.m.
Do you think the action can be sustained only with the allegations made against the LCPD itself, removing Mr. Copist from the equation?
whoCivility, please. @voh ౨ৎ @Brenda @Fish
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:55 p.m.
Apologies, Your Honor.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 10:55 p.m.
This... this is my life. I have no husband, no children. I've dedicated my heart and soul to representing the brave officers of the City of Lander.
voh ౨ৎApologies, Your Honor.
who 2025-04-18 10:55 p.m.
Very good, Counselor, very brave. However, I must ask the Plaintiff some questions concerning his request.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 10:56 p.m.
Failure to join would apply if he files a separate action. But Gardai wants to just dismiss that count is my understanding?
whoDo you think the action can be sustained only with the allegations made against the LCPD itself, removing Mr. Copist from the equation?
Fish 2025-04-18 10:56 p.m.
Yes. There would not be a failure to join because LCPD is the actual party to the contract, not copists.
Fish 2025-04-18 10:57 p.m.
but i think that's if as brenda was saying if i wanted to file a separate action against copists
FishYes. There would not be a failure to join because LCPD is the actual party to the contract, not copists.
who 2025-04-18 10:59 p.m.
You've made multiple allegations in your complaint, many concerning Mr. Copists alone. This is, in substance, mostly a case asking for Mr. Copists to execute a contract in his official capacity, no?
Fish 2025-04-18 11:00 p.m.
Well he was acting on behalf of LCPD, so the breach would be with the department
whoYou've made multiple allegations in your complaint, many concerning Mr. Copists alone. This is, in substance, mostly a case asking for Mr. Copists to execute a contract in his offi...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:00 p.m.
Also, during arbitration, we established that Copists cannot, by himself, execute the contract
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:00 p.m.
It would need to be the Department
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:00 p.m.
He doesn't have that power as a captain
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:00 p.m.
?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:00 p.m.
But even if it would be against his office, that's just liability against the state
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
So you agree that Copists does not have the power to bind the Department or the State in a contract
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
As we have been... saying
BrendaPopplewellAlso, during arbitration, we established that Copists cannot, by himself, execute the contract
who 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
The State established in arbitration that Mr. Copists is unable to enter into a contract with the Defendant?
whoThe State established in arbitration that Mr. Copists is unable to enter into a contract with the Defendant?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
No. We established that he is unable to role him
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
Copists got permission from the Commissioner of the LCPD
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
That is the point of this suit
who 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
If he is unable to execute the contract how is he able to enter into a contractual relationship with the Plaintiff?
whoIf he is unable to execute the contract how is he able to enter into a contractual relationship with the Plaintiff?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
Because he entered the contract with approval from the Commissioner
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:01 p.m.
That's the entire purpose of this lawsuit
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:02 p.m.
His permissions on a Discord server/group doesn't prevent him from doing that
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:02 p.m.
If this Court were to say that Copists has no power to employ people with the Commissioner's permission, then I believe tens of employees would automatically lose their jobs
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:02 p.m.
as that is the way employees are often hired in the LCPD
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:02 p.m.
The Commissioner approved?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:02 p.m.
That's news to me
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:02 p.m.
I believe that's what the complaint alleges
Fish 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.
the chief of bureau
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.@Fish
Fish 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.
who has the authrotiy
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.
Ok, I think this is another example of @Brenda rushing to give the Defendant everything he wants
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.
Without even understanding the case in full
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.
But I digress
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.
Not at all
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:03 p.m.
I spent at least about an hour reviewing applicable law and the evidence
who 2025-04-18 11:04 p.m.
Why was it filed against Mr. Copists and not the Commissioner if Mr. Copists was a mere proxy, approving a contract as an agent and not party?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:04 p.m.
before deciding to plead liability
who 2025-04-18 11:04 p.m.
If Mr. Copists sought "approval" of the Commissioner, this makes him an agent of the Commissioner, no?
whoIf Mr. Copists sought "approval" of the Commissioner, this makes him an agent of the Commissioner, no?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:04 p.m.
Well, the LCPD is a party to the action.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:04 p.m.
They're the real party to the contract.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:04 p.m.
The Commissioner is an agent of the LCPD.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:04 p.m.
Acting as the LCPD
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:05 p.m.
The LCPD is the principal
Fishthe chief of bureau
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:05 p.m.
or chief of the bureau
who 2025-04-18 11:05 p.m.
Mrs. Popplewell, I am not convinced that you are truly representing the interests of your client.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:05 p.m.
The Commissioner absolutely did not approve the hiring, Your Honor. I can produce a sworn decalaration from the Commissioner to the fact he never did such a thing.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340113463174758510/1362986719418257538/Screenshot_2025-04-18_at_11.02.35_PM.png?ex=680463cc&is=6803124c&hm=8b2c889ba44ff5a3d1a80245efa5617662ae47aa197aa005d72d17de42f0f875&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340113463174758510/1362986719418257538/Screenshot_2025-04-18_at_11.02.35_PM.png?ex=680463cc&is=6803124c&hm=8b2c889ba44ff5a3d1a80245efa5617662ae47aa197aa005d72d17de42f0f875&
who 2025-04-18 11:05 p.m.
I do not think you have come here to defend the interests of the State of Mayflower.
voh ౨ৎThe Commissioner absolutely did not approve the hiring, Your Honor. I can produce a sworn decalaration from the Commissioner to the fact he never did such a thing. https://cdn.dis...
Fish 2025-04-18 11:05 p.m.
..
Fish 2025-04-18 11:06 p.m.
first i said it was the chief of bureau, kash
whoI do not think you have come here to defend the interests of the State of Mayflower.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:06 p.m.
Our interests is to the law. If this Court determines that there was not a contract then the case can proceed to trial
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:06 p.m.
We've reviewed a lot of evidence during arbitration
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:06 p.m.
So none of my conclusion are made lightly
BrendaPopplewellWe've reviewed a lot of evidence during arbitration
who 2025-04-18 11:06 p.m.
"We?"
who 2025-04-18 11:06 p.m.
Who is we?
who 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
You assured me you were not connected to arbitration.
who"We?"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
Royal we, referring to the government
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
The Office of Government Claims does arbitration
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
I was only recently acquainted with this whole ordeal
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
If the Court needs to hold an evidentiary heairing, then let's get started
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
I have a question, if I may
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
There's a lot of evidence to review
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
At this point, we're going in circles. Vohesia is alleging one thing. James is alleging another
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.@Brenda You typically represent government actors during claims against the govt through the Office of Government Claims, yes?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
Just to clarify
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:07 p.m.
Why didn't you for this one?
voh ౨ৎBrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:08 p.m.
Uh, not really. Only when I'm invited which is not the case in a majority of cases
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:08 p.m.
There's like at least 5 others where I've not been involved
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:08 p.m.
Do you not have automatic access to all arbitration channels?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:08 p.m.
I can view the channels. I don't read them most of the time
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:08 p.m.
There's a lot
BrendaPopplewellUh, not really. Only when I'm invited which is not the case in a majority of cases
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:08 p.m.
So... you're saying that people other then the OSG can represent the government's actors in legal proceedings
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
Represent the government? No.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
The departments are given an opportunity to comment
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
Especially the employee in question
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
But they don't represent the government per se
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
But anywho
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
Is it not a mandatory prelude to a formal civil action in court?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
Would that not be a legal proceeding?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
If not, quasai-legal
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:09 p.m.
Anywho
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:10 p.m.@who At this point, I submit that the Court should hold an evidentiary hearing on the contract, whether it exists, its elements
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:10 p.m.
We're going in circles
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:10 p.m.
The Court needs to see the evidence to make an informed decision
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-18 11:10 p.m.@who We ask you disqualify Mx. @Brenda from continuing to "represent" the City of Lander Police in this matter
Fish 2025-04-18 11:10 p.m.@who did the court accept copists being dropped or what
Fishwho 2025-04-18 11:11 p.m.
Make a written motion
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:11 p.m.
I'm not sure what Vohesia is getting at here
who 2025-04-18 11:12 p.m.
Mrs. Popplewell, this OGC, you have previously represented them? @Brenda
whoMrs. Popplewell, this OGC, you have previously represented them? @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:12 p.m.
The Office of Government Claims is its own entity in the DOJ
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:12 p.m.
I don't represent or work for them
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:12 p.m.
They make all decisions in arbitrations
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:12 p.m.
And if it goes to court, the SGO takes over litigation
whoMake a written motion
Fish 2025-04-18 11:12 p.m.
the court would have to accept it right because copists hasn't filed an answer yet
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:12 p.m.
So we're separate departments
BrendaPopplewellSo we're separate departments
who 2025-04-18 11:13 p.m.
You've previously represented the OGC in the constitutionality of their arbitration process in relation to monetary claims, no?
whoYou've previously represented the OGC in the constitutionality of their arbitration process in relation to monetary claims, no?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:13 p.m.
Represented?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:13 p.m.
I was the plaintiff's lawyer in a class action
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:13 p.m.
in catonius-v-notsfeelings
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:13 p.m.
To end unconstitutional arbitrations for money damages
Fish 2025-04-18 11:16 p.m.
I request that @voh ౨ৎ be removed from these proceedings
who 2025-04-18 11:16 p.m.
Sure @Fish
who used /remove
clerkFlow Bot2025-04-18 11:16 p.m. @who has removed @voh ౨ৎ from the case channel.
Case Modified
who 2025-04-18 11:16 p.m.
Amend the civil complaint @Fish
Fish 2025-04-18 11:16 p.m.
Ok
who 2025-04-18 11:21 p.m.
Mrs. Popplewell, I must ask: Do you see any path of lawful defense of the Defendant in this action that could potentially result in their diminished or absence of liability? @Brenda
whoMrs. Popplewell, I must ask: Do you see any path of lawful defense of the Defendant in this action that could potentially result in their diminished or absence of liability? <@1118...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:23 p.m.
I truly don't, your honor. That is something I considered extremely carefully when this case was filed. I do believe there is a contract; that the essential elements are met of a contract are met; the contract was authorized by a competent officer of the LCPD (or, at the very least, apparent authority attaches as a reasonable person would believe so); and that the contract was not fulfilled.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:24 p.m.
I don't see a way I could reasonably defend this action.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:24 p.m.
But I do believe it is in the interests of justice to hold an evidentiary hearing if the Court deems that appropriate.
who 2025-04-18 11:24 p.m.
Have you discussed with your client, the LCPD regarding that? Have you asked them for information that would indicate otherwise?
who 2025-04-18 11:24 p.m.
Have you asked your colleagues in the Office of the Solicitor General?
whoHave you discussed with your client, the LCPD regarding that? Have you asked them for information that would indicate otherwise?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:25 p.m.
This was provided during arbitration. The LCPD was invited to comment and provide evidence and the claimaint was as well.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:25 p.m.
I reviewed the evidence in that ticket.
BrendaPopplewellI reviewed the evidence in that ticket.
who 2025-04-18 11:25 p.m.
You did not speak with your client?
whoYou did not speak with your client?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:25 p.m.
Well, when I'm representing an entire agency, I can't really see who I would speak to. Copists? The Commissioner?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
Usually we just review the evidence we're provided and make a decision
who 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
Have you read the ethical code?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
But we did hear from Vohesia
who 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
"An attorney employed or retained by an organization shall conform his or her representation to the concept that the client is the organization itself, acting through its duly authorized directors, officers, employees, members, shareholders, or other constituents overseeing the particular engagement."
who 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
Rule 1.13(A)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
I am acquainted with the MSBEC
who 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
Have you spoken to the duly authorized directors, officers and employees of the LCPD?
whoHave you spoken to the duly authorized directors, officers and employees of the LCPD?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
Like I said, Vohesia and the LCPD were invited to comment during this case's infancy
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
In fact
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:26 p.m.
If I may cite quickly
who 2025-04-18 11:27 p.m.
Why do you keep referencing the arbitration?
who 2025-04-18 11:27 p.m.
You have said you are unrelated to the arbitration.
who 2025-04-18 11:27 p.m.
Your defense of the LCPD should be independent of any OGC activity
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:27 p.m.
I'm aware, your honor
whoHave you spoken to the duly authorized directors, officers and employees of the LCPD?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:27 p.m.
In the ticket after arbitration , Vohesia was present and did comment
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:27 p.m.
And she said: "please cease contact with any officers of the department thanks
i'm the only individual authorized to communicate on behalf of the department in legal matters
"
i'm the only individual authorized to communicate on behalf of the department in legal matters
"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:28 p.m.
So that was the message I got
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:28 p.m.
To cease communicating with the department's officers
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:28 p.m.
and to communicate exclusively through Vohesia
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:28 p.m.
And we did hear from Vohesia
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:28 p.m.
We have heard from Vohesia
BrendaPopplewellIn the ticket after arbitration , Vohesia was present and did comment
who 2025-04-18 11:28 p.m.
Have you, as an attorney in this action, beginning today, contacted your clients in an attempt to represent the LCPD as an organization?
whoHave you, as an attorney in this action, beginning today, contacted your clients in an attempt to represent the LCPD as an organization?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:29 p.m.
I've been in contact with Vohesia who informed me that all communications with the LCPD need to happen through her
who 2025-04-18 11:29 p.m.
Mrs. Popplewell. I have asked a simple question. Have you made contact with your clients?
whoMrs. Popplewell. I have asked a simple question. Have you made contact with your clients?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:29 p.m.
My client is the Government... I'm not representing Copists
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:29 p.m.
When you say clients, who are you referring to?
BrendaPopplewellMy client is the Government... I'm not representing Copists
who 2025-04-18 11:30 p.m.
Your client is the government, yes, and the organization LCPD, the alleged authority of this alleged contract.
whoYour client is the government, yes, and the organization LCPD, the alleged authority of this alleged contract.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:30 p.m.
The LCPD made it clear that all communications need to happen through Vohesia. That's my response.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:30 p.m.
As I've literally cited exactly what she said
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:30 p.m.
They did not want me to talk to them, they wanted me to talk to Vohesia
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:31 p.m.
There's no collusion here. There's no foul play. And I've definitely not rushed to any decision.
who 2025-04-18 11:31 p.m.
Show me your communications with Mrs. Vohesia
who 2025-04-18 11:32 p.m.
Consider this a sanctions hearing
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:32 p.m. 
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:32 p.m.
As you can see, she made it clear that the LCPD did not want to communicate with us further
who 2025-04-18 11:32 p.m.
Why are these communications contained solely in an arbitration order against them?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:32 p.m.
It was in the same ticket, but after the arbitration concluded
who 2025-04-18 11:33 p.m.
Why have you not independently sought to contact them about THIS ACTION .
who 2025-04-18 11:33 p.m.
The arbitration order and your representation of your clients in this action have no relation.
whoWhy have you not independently sought to contact them about THIS ACTION .
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:33 p.m.
They were... that's what mediation/arbitration is per statute
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:33 p.m.
Your Honor, I believe i've been extremely transparent. I've even offered to hold an evidentiary hearing so this Court can make an informed decision
@who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:33 p.m.
The LCPD has been refusing to talk to me, so I've respected that decision
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:33 p.m.
They did have a chance to comment during arbitratino
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:33 p.m.
arbitration*
BrendaPopplewellThe Government hereby files its notice of appearance for the LPD and Copists. cc: @who @Fish @Nicklaus
who 2025-04-18 11:34 p.m.
I want to see your communications between you and the Lander City Police Department starting from this message.
Fish 2025-04-18 11:34 p.m.@who Can i file the amended complaint tomorrow it is late
whoI want to see your communications between you and the Lander City Police Department starting from this message.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:34 p.m.
That's what the image contains, your honor
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:34 p.m.
Also
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:34 p.m.
The LCPD has had every opportunity to respond and participate during arbitration
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.
They haven't been denied that opportunity
who 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.
I want the contents of the whole arbitration. Provide them to the court.
whoI want the contents of the whole arbitration. Provide them to the court.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.
The ticket?
who 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.
Yes.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.
As in transcript
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.
Sure
who 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.
Yes.
FishFish 2025-04-18 11:35 p.m.@who
Fishwho 2025-04-18 11:36 p.m.
All you need to do is remove Mr. Copists reference as a defendant, no?
who 2025-04-18 11:36 p.m.
Tomorrow is fine
Fish 2025-04-18 11:36 p.m.
ok Thanks good night
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:37 p.m.@who It appears I don't have access to the transcripts channel
BrendaPopplewellwho 2025-04-18 11:37 p.m.
Did you concede in an equal manner to how you have today during the arbitration?
who 2025-04-18 11:38 p.m.
Were you representing the LCPD in arbitration as well?
whoDid you concede in an equal manner to how you have today during the arbitration?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:38 p.m.
I did not get personally involved in the arbitration, your honor.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:38 p.m.
I was never invited to comment by the GCO
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:38 p.m.
I've had to rely on the arbitration contents, which include some evidence submitting
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:39 p.m.
submitted*
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:39 p.m.
And, if I remember correctly, the LCPD refused to submit any evidence or response
who 2025-04-18 11:39 p.m.
Is it because they believe you have been hostile towards them?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:39 p.m.
I or the GCO?
who 2025-04-18 11:39 p.m.
You.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:39 p.m.
I don't think so, your honor. I don't have any previous meaningful encounters with the LCPD
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:40 p.m.
Or Copists or the other defendants
BrendaPopplewellI don't think so, your honor. I don't have any previous meaningful encounters with the LCPD
who 2025-04-18 11:40 p.m.
You need to make meaningful effort to contact the LCPD and represent their best legal interests, not depending on an arbitration order or findings of the OGC issued against them that is now of material importance to this action. Do you understand?
whoYou need to make meaningful effort to contact the LCPD and represent their best legal interests, not depending on an arbitration order or findings of the OGC issued against them th...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:41 p.m.
Sure, but the LCPD has communicated that it does not want me contacting them
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:41 p.m.
I can talk to Vohesia, but I have done that in this case channel
BrendaPopplewellSure, but the LCPD has communicated that it does not want me contacting them
who 2025-04-18 11:41 p.m.
You will contact them how they have requested you to contact them, which is through Mrs. Vohesia.
who 2025-04-18 11:41 p.m.
You will speak to Mrs. Vohesia and represent the legal interest of the LCPD, including exploring any and all lawful defenses.
who 2025-04-18 11:42 p.m.
You will abandon knowledge or support of the OGC arbitration gained through any position not relating to their defense, unless you have spoken and come to an agreement concerning that conflict of interest.
who 2025-04-18 11:42 p.m.
Your personal knowledge of DOJ arbitration will not be referenced or used in your representation of the LCPD, unless you have spoken to your client concerning that conflict of interest.
who 2025-04-18 11:43 p.m.
If you fail to do this, I will sanction you. Understand? @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-18 11:43 p.m.
I do
who 2025-04-18 11:43 p.m.
I strike any answer to any fact filed by the State given your failure to confer diligently with your client
who 2025-04-18 11:44 p.m.
You will additionally cease communication with the OGC, or any officer responsible for its conduct, in relation to this case.
who 2025-04-18 11:45 p.m.
I expect that when the Plaintiff files an amended complaint tomorrow, that you will serve diligently as your client's attorney and defend their interests in this action, including that you have made all effort to contact your client and surmise the facts of this case independently of OGC findings.
who used /add
clerkFlow Bot2025-04-19 04:36 p.m. @who has added @voh ౨ৎ to the case channel.
Case Modified
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:36 p.m.
Your Honor.
who 2025-04-19 04:36 p.m.
The LCPD's counsel, Mrs. Vohesia, has requested a hearing to intervene by right on the basis of SB010 the "Clark County Charter Act", codified C.C.O. 1 § 101.1. I will allow oral motion.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:36 p.m.
Thank you.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:37 p.m.
If you are preventing my intervention, I would ask that @Brenda be discharged from this channel as they are not the proper counsel for the City of Lander Police.
who 2025-04-19 04:37 p.m.
Let us hear your argument first. Mrs. Popplwell, please do not make any arguments until that is finished.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:38 p.m.
Thank you.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:39 p.m.
The Clark County Charter, ratified by the Senate through a constitutionally valid process, provides that the City of Lander "shall be classified as a city and be designated for a municipal government"
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:39 p.m.
The City of Lander Police Department is an entity of... the City of Lander.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:39 p.m.
And as a municipal body politic, is authorized to represent itself under the corporate bounds of the City of Lander.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:40 p.m.
In fact
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:40 p.m.
4 M.S.C. 8 § 1103 "For the purposes of this chapter, the term “Lander City Police Department” shall refer to the municipal law enforcement agency whose jurisdiction resides within the City of Lander."
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:40 p.m.
The City of Lander police is not a state actor, it is a municipal actor.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:40 p.m.
And we ask, respectfully, that Mx. @Brenda be removed from this chat and sanctioned for misrepresenting themselves as an attorney for an entity they have no legal right to represent.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:40 p.m.
If they wish to appear on the basis that the State has an interest, then the State should intervene as a seperate affected party
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:41 p.m.
But as it stands, this matter is between the City of Lander and Mr. Gardai
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:41 p.m.
That is my motion. @who
who 2025-04-19 04:41 p.m.@Brenda Do you have a response?
who 2025-04-19 04:43 p.m.
Let us return the civility granted by Mrs. Popplwell and not disrupt @voh ౨ৎ
whoBrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 04:55 p.m.
I do indeed.
The Lander Police Department is a state agency. It is created by state law. 3 MSC 2 §1206(c). Its purpose is to execute state law—not municipal law . And most importantly, there is no functioning Lander City "Government" in Mayflower.
Moreover, any municipalities would be considered subdivisions of the State of Mayflower. Therefore, any agency of the City of Lander is an agency of the State of Mayflower.Moor v. County of Alameda , 411 US 693 (1973) (citation omitted) ("Municipal corporations are political subdivisions of the state for purposes of government").
InIn re theoriginalsheriftom , 2 Mayf.Supp. (2025), Chief Judge AlbertWellesley previously held that the Lander Police Department is a state agency with state-wide jurisdiciton. I will attach the transcript from that petition hearing to this message.
Mr. Vohesia/Morale misrepresents the law to usurp the Government's ability to defend suits against it. Her motion comes mere minutes after I informed her that, per this Court's directive, I will be conducting anindependent review of the evidence and facts to render a truthful, ethical, and appropriate defense for the LCPD. I submit that this motion is simply retaliation.
Even assuming the LPD is a municipal agency (an unprecedented notion, because, as we know, municipalities in Mayflower are defunct), 3 MSC 2 §8211 allows the SGO to appear–
There is no doubt that the State Senate intended for the Solicitor General's Office to represent the interests of the State of Mayflower wherever they may arise. That applies regardless of whether the matter arises before a City or Township.
But again, the LPD is a state agency. This has been held. And without special justification, stare decisis controls.
The Lander Police Department is a state agency. It is created by state law. 3 MSC 2 §1206(c). Its purpose is to execute state law—
Moreover, any municipalities would be considered subdivisions of the State of Mayflower. Therefore, any agency of the City of Lander is an agency of the State of Mayflower.
In
Mr. Vohesia/Morale misrepresents the law to usurp the Government's ability to defend suits against it. Her motion comes mere minutes after I informed her that, per this Court's directive, I will be conducting an
Even assuming the LPD is a municipal agency (an unprecedented notion, because, as we know, municipalities in Mayflower are defunct), 3 MSC 2 §8211 allows the SGO to appear–
"To any Court in the State of Mayflower to attend to the interests of the State of Mayflower in a suit pending in a court of the State of Mayflower, or in a court ofa City or Township ***"
There is no doubt that the State Senate intended for the Solicitor General's Office to represent the interests of the State of Mayflower wherever they may arise. That applies regardless of whether the matter arises before a City or Township.
But again, the LPD is a state agency. This has been held. And without special justification, stare decisis controls.
cc:@who
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 04:56 p.m.
Would you like a response? @who
voh ౨ৎWould you like a response? @who
who 2025-04-19 04:57 p.m.
Sure
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:03 p.m.
Mx. @Brenda is misrepresenting flagrantly the law and the constituting instruments that create the City of Lander Police. Xe cites 3 MSC 2 §1206(c), which simply provides what a law enforcement agency within the State is. Operating under xer arguments, the Clark County Sheriffs Office would too be a state level law enforcement agency, as with the Township of Mersea Police. That doesen't make sense to me, for good reason.
Similarly, while it is inarguable that municipalities are indeed subdivisions of the State, that does not imply Mx. Popplewell's authority to represent them. Why would our framers distinguish from state, county, and municipal government if they did not intend for issues to be resolved and handled at state, county, and municipal levels?
As it stands, Mx. Popplewell has not cited a single instrument that would permit them to represent the City of Lander Police. While ze is without a doubt a fabulous attorney, we do not want xer representation or that of the Solicitor General's Office. The City of Lander Police, empowered as a"municipal law enforcement agency" (per 4 M.S.C. 8 § 1103) under the municipally created corporate entity of the City of Lander (per the Clark County Charter), has elected to retain it's own, in-house representation, which it should be entitled to do.
Most law enforcement agencies of the state are constituted by developer instrument. There is no explicit law making the Mersea Police Department exist or providing for the system of appointment of it's Chief, because it was created and the method of selection ordained by the Community Administrator. Similarly, the Commissioner of the City of Lander Police, while the lawful department head, is a developer occupying a developer-created position. The interests of both CA and of the law were to form the LCPD as a municipal agency, not a state one.
Similarly, while it is inarguable that municipalities are indeed subdivisions of the State, that does not imply Mx. Popplewell's authority to represent them. Why would our framers distinguish from state, county, and municipal government if they did not intend for issues to be resolved and handled at state, county, and municipal levels?
As it stands, Mx. Popplewell has not cited a single instrument that would permit them to represent the City of Lander Police. While ze is without a doubt a fabulous attorney, we do not want xer representation or that of the Solicitor General's Office. The City of Lander Police, empowered as a
Most law enforcement agencies of the state are constituted by developer instrument. There is no explicit law making the Mersea Police Department exist or providing for the system of appointment of it's Chief, because it was created and the method of selection ordained by the Community Administrator. Similarly, the Commissioner of the City of Lander Police, while the lawful department head, is a developer occupying a developer-created position. The interests of both CA and of the law were to form the LCPD as a municipal agency, not a state one.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:04 p.m.
Lastly, in regard to Mx. @Brenda claim under 3 MSC 2 §8211. Yes, xe may be sent to attend to the interests of the State, but attending to the interests of the State does not mean usurping the right of a municipal body politic to represent itself
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:04 p.m.
I believe, as I think should the Court, that if Mx. @Brenda is to assert 3 MSC 2 §8211 as the grounds for her presence, then that entitles her to intervene on behalf of the State of Mayflower, and not usurp the representation of a municipal body politic
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:04 p.m.
That's all I have to say, Your Honor @who
BrendaPopplewellI do indeed. The Lander Police Department is a state agency. It is created by state law. 3 MSC 2 §1206(c). Its purpose is to execute state law—not municipal law . And most impo...(edited)
who 2025-04-19 05:06 p.m.
You have claimed that "an unprecedented notion, because, as we know, municipalities in Mayflower are defunct". I do have a question towards that, 3 M.S.C. 1 § 3208 provides that this court must look towards the Mayflower State Code as to the definitive law of the land, and under the Mayflower State Code, specifically C.C.O. 1 § 101.1, the County Charter is currently in active effect. How should the court navigate that?
whoYou have claimed that "an unprecedented notion, because, as we know, municipalities in Mayflower are defunct". I do have a question towards that, 3 M.S.C. 1 § 3208 provides that th...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:08 p.m.
The doctrine of desuetude, your honor. If a law from 1500 years ago is still active—but has never been enforced and been neglected by the government—does it still have legal force? Most scholars would say no.
But I have an even more important argument to make. The Charter which Mr. Vohesia mentionsdoes not mention the LPD. That is so because the LPD is (1) created by state law, (2) to enforce state law, and (3) according to this Court's previous decision in In re Originalsheriftom , it has state-wide jurisdiction.
Does theCity of Lander exist? I've been there many times. The place exists.
Does its government truly exist? No.
But I have an even more important argument to make. The Charter which Mr. Vohesia mentions
Does the
Does its government truly exist? No.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:09 p.m.
Your Honor, the Charter was ordained under 4 months ago. I would hardly call that desuetude.
BrendaPopplewellThe doctrine of desuetude, your honor. If a law from 1500 years ago is still active—but has never been enforced and been neglected by the government—does it still have legal force?...
who 2025-04-19 05:09 p.m.
How can the Court look outside of the State Code to determine what is and is not effective law?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:09 p.m.
Well, for the time being , there is no City Governemnt
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:10 p.m.
Mx. Popplewell points to State Law, but state law defines the City of Lander Police as a municipal law enforcement agency for the jurisdiction of the City of Lander, and the constitutionally ratified charter defines the City of Lander as a municipality with a municipal system of government
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:10 p.m.
I fail to see what the disconnect here is
BrendaPopplewellWell, for the time being , there is no City Governemnt
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:10 p.m.
The Constitution does not require a City or even a County government for the Charter to still be in effect.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:10 p.m.
That is why we still have a Sheriff and his office.
who 2025-04-19 05:10 p.m.
It does appear that the State may be in violation regarding the city lacking a government, no? The Constitution demands the Lieutenant Governor call for elections of a defunct city?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:11 p.m.
Even if the City Government exists, that does not immediately render any agencies with the word "Lander" in it municipal agencies.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:11 p.m.
A municipal agency must be created by and enforce municipal laws.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:11 p.m.
The LPD has been held to have statewide jurisdiction. Stare decisis controls.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:11 p.m.
The law provides that all law enforcement agencies will hold statewide jurisdiction, to be regulated only by their departmental policy.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:11 p.m.
Would you say that the Clark County Sheriff is a state level police agency?
who 2025-04-19 05:11 p.m.
Does statewide jurisdiction have any effect on its alleged municipal nature?
who 2025-04-19 05:12 p.m.
Certainly the State Senate could vest any agency it wishes with state-wide power, regardless of "municpal" status?
whoDoes statewide jurisdiction have any effect on its alleged municipal nature?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:12 p.m.
Yes, your honor. If the LPD was a municipal agency, surely its jurisdiction would be limited to that municipality.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:12 p.m.
A municipality only has jurisdiction within its own limits.
BrendaPopplewellEven if the City Government exists, that does not immediately render any agencies with the word "Lander" in it municipal agencies.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:12 p.m.
4 M.S.C. 8 § 1103 "For the purposes of this chapter, the term “Lander City Police Department” shall refer to the municipal law enforcement agency whose jurisdiction resides within the City of Lander."
C.C.O. 1 § 101.1. "Lander shall be classified as a city and be designated for a municipal government"
C.C.O. 1 § 101.1. "Lander shall be classified as a city and be designated for a municipal government"
voh ౨ৎ4 M.S.C. 8 § 1103 "For the purposes of this chapter, the term “Lander City Police Department” shall refer to the municipal law enforcement agency whose jurisdiction resides within ...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:12 p.m.
Yes, but Chief Judge Wellesley held otherwise in In re theOriginalSherifTom @who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:12 p.m.
That was the exact issue in that case
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:13 p.m.
Can you provide exactly where, please?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:13 p.m.
I am having a hard time locating where that is said
BrendaPopplewellI do indeed. The Lander Police Department is a state agency. It is created by state law. 3 MSC 2 §1206(c). Its purpose is to execute state law—not municipal law . And most impo...(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:13 p.m.
I attached the transcript here
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:13 p.m.
It is 135 pages
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:13 p.m.
If you're going to assert something, it would be nice to know exactly what you're asserting. Not just a "go scour thorugh this 135 page transcript"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:13 p.m.
Well, I can represent as an officer of this Court, that it is in there @who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:13 p.m.
I can look for it. But it'll take a while
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:14 p.m.
But seeing as the Petitioner's argument was rejected, it is clear that I'm not making this up
who 2025-04-19 05:14 p.m.
Did the Honorable Chief Judge Wellesley take into account the argument concerning the County Charter?
who 2025-04-19 05:14 p.m.
This could be newly presented evidence to this District Court of unwaivering impartiality and authority.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:14 p.m.
0/0 mentions for "charter" in my search of the transcript, your honor.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:15 p.m.
But to be fair, the Charter did exist at the time of the Chief's ruling
who 2025-04-19 05:15 p.m.
And did any party to that proceeding bring it as an authoritative law for the Honorable Chief Judge to consider?
whoAnd did any party to that proceeding bring it as an authoritative law for the Honorable Chief Judge to consider?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:15 p.m.
I assume no one brought it up because, well, the Charter does not mention the LPD
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:15 p.m.
There's no mention of a Charter in the transcript
who 2025-04-19 05:16 p.m.
Would you have me reject the municipal corporation on the basis that they have no current legislative body or mayor?
whoWould you have me reject the municipal corporation on the basis that they have no current legislative body or mayor?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:17 p.m.
Currently they don't truly exist. It's in the lawbook—but it's defunct.
BrendaPopplewellCurrently they don't truly exist. It's in the lawbook—but it's defunct.
who 2025-04-19 05:17 p.m.
Does the State Constitution not have specific provisions for what happens when a city becomes defunct?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:18 p.m.
The Constitution does not mention the charter of a municipal or county corporation nullifies if there is no government, by the way
whoDoes the State Constitution not have specific provisions for what happens when a city becomes defunct?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:18 p.m.
"In the event that a legislature of a County or Municipality has failed to meet on record for thirty days, it shall be deemed defunct and the State Senate shall assume its duties and responsibilities. In the event that the Executive of any County or Municipality has been absent for thirty days, he shall be deemed defunct and the responsibilities and duties of his office shall be transferred to the Governor. The Lieutenant Governor shall certify to the Mayflower Elections Commission for new elections within seven days of a body being declared defunct. At the conclusion of voting, the responsibilities of those respective bodies shall be devolved back to them and they shall no longer be considered defunct."
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:18 p.m.
As you can see, your honor, it is defunct.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:18 p.m.
And, therefore, its duties are transferred to the state government.
who 2025-04-19 05:18 p.m.
Has the Lieutenant Governor certified this?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:18 p.m.
I don't believe he has done that.
who 2025-04-19 05:19 p.m.
Hmm.
who 2025-04-19 05:19 p.m.
Provide the statute which establishes the Lander City Police Department @Brenda
whoHas the Lieutenant Governor certified this?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:19 p.m.
He doesn't certify its defunctness —he merely certifies the new election.
whoProvide the statute which establishes the Lander City Police Department @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:19 p.m.
Will do
whoProvide the statute which establishes the Lander City Police Department @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:20 p.m.
3 MSC 2 §1206(c)
BrendaPopplewell3 MSC 2 §1206(c)
who 2025-04-19 05:20 p.m.
Is that the establishment of an agency, or recognition of an agency that has existed in perpetuity?
whoIs that the establishment of an agency, or recognition of an agency that has existed in perpetuity?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:21 p.m.
I believe that establishes it.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:21 p.m.
They define the law enforcement agencies and then confer on them powers in the next parts.
BrendaPopplewellI believe that establishes it.
who 2025-04-19 05:21 p.m.
Was there a Lander City Police Department prior to the promulgation of the State Code?
who 2025-04-19 05:21 p.m.
This is a question for you as well @voh ౨ৎ
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:21 p.m.
Your Honor, the section cited has to do with live fire acts.
who 2025-04-19 05:22 p.m.
Ah, yes, you are correct.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:22 p.m.
It's literally a clause there so they don't have to list every agency that can partake in live fire acts every single time.
who 2025-04-19 05:22 p.m.
This section does seem to only reference "law enforcement agencies" in relation to live fire acts.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:22 p.m.
I doubt the State legislature would decide to create all it's law enforcement bodies in a subchapter handling live fire acts and refuse to elaborate more
who 2025-04-19 05:22 p.m.
Hmm. You see my confusion, then?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:22 p.m.
All initial law enforcement agencies were created by the grace of the Community Administrator
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:22 p.m.
MPAW, LCPD, MPD
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:23 p.m.
Some that came later in the games history - such as MBI or MTP - are defined in law, yes
who 2025-04-19 05:23 p.m.
Hmm. It does seem the LCPD exists in "law" only as lex non scripta
who 2025-04-19 05:23 p.m.
Unwritten
who 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
But certainly existing in the law of the State
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
All references to it in law are just acknowledgements in perpituity
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.@who 
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
I believe the State Capitol is in Lander
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
Though, correct me if I'm wrong
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
The State Code even allows it to operate outside Lander
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
Oop
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
wait Im confused
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:24 p.m.
Disregard that, I was tihnking about MPD
BrendaPopplewellwho 2025-04-19 05:25 p.m.
This just seems to be a grant of authority to the Lander City Police Department, no? Nothing in our Constitutional framework prevents the grant of authorities to municipal bodies, unless you would say otherwise?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:25 p.m.
No, you're right. I got confused
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:25 p.m.
Both definitions of the LCPD in state law, Mx. Popplewells and mine, just acknowledge it's existance already for the purposes of specific laws. Ie: 4 M.S.C. 8 § 1103 "For the purposes of this chapter, the term “Lander City Police Department” shall refer to the municipal law enforcement agency whose jurisdiction resides within the City of Lander."
who 2025-04-19 05:25 p.m.
I think this would be best solved by directing the Lieutenant Governor to fulfill his duty in calling for elections of the City of Lander?
who 2025-04-19 05:26 p.m.
Representation could be lawfully provided at that point
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:26 p.m.
This has been something that we brought up beforehand and we spoke with the MEC on this.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:26 p.m.
Not myself, but the Chief of Department for LCPD
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:26 p.m.
I'm not sure the exact resolution of it but we could include the Chief or a representative from the MEC to way in if that would be appropriate
whoRepresentation could be lawfully provided at that point
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:27 p.m.
I would say representation is lawful. A municipal body politic has chosen it's counsel.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:27 p.m.
it is not up to the state to usurp local actors in regular matters such as this
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:27 p.m.
Or else - why have any distinction?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:27 p.m.
I would say it's not. This is a state agency for all practical purposes
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:27 p.m.
The SGO has historically represented the LPD
BrendaPopplewellThe SGO has historically represented the LPD
who 2025-04-19 05:27 p.m.
This may have been in error, no?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:27 p.m.
The CLPD has not historically retained it's own legal counsel.
who 2025-04-19 05:28 p.m.
If this Court determines here today that the City of Lander is indeed a constitutionally valid municipality, only pending elections?
whoThis may have been in error, no?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:28 p.m.
argumentum ad antiquitatem
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:28 p.m.
Well, at the current moment, the City is defunct.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:28 p.m.
That's what the Court would have to base its ruling on
who 2025-04-19 05:28 p.m.
Well, "defunctness" requires a "declaration" under the Constitution of the State
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:28 p.m.
We can't force the LG's hand
whoWell, "defunctness" requires a "declaration" under the Constitution of the State
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:28 p.m.
This Court can make that declaration today, no?
who 2025-04-19 05:29 p.m.
I question if a City that never possessed a legislative or executive body can be "defunct"
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:29 p.m.
The city of lander, even if deemed "defunct," would still exist as a corporate entity
who 2025-04-19 05:29 p.m.
Under the text of the Constitution
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:29 p.m.
meaning it's bodies would still exist under it
whoI question if a City that never possessed a legislative or executive body can be "defunct"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:30 p.m.
The Constitution clearly says that all its power and duties are transferred to the state
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:30 p.m.
The power of the Mayor would be transferred to the Governor.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:30 p.m.
But... what powers does the Mayor have?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:30 p.m.
Can you point to where the powers of the mayor are provided?
whoUnder the text of the Constitution
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:31 p.m.
The opposite of defunct would be existing . Surely, that's not the answer.
who 2025-04-19 05:31 p.m.
"In the event that a legislature of a County or Municipality has failed to meet on record for thirty days, it shall be deemed defunct and the State Senate shall assume its duties and responsibilities. In the event that the Executive of any County or Municipality has been absent for thirty days, he shall be deemed defunct and the responsibilities and duties of his office shall be transferred to the Governor."
This only transfers the authorities of the legislative power of the county and municipality to the Senate, no?
This only transfers the authorities of the legislative power of the county and municipality to the Senate, no?
who 2025-04-19 05:31 p.m.
The duties and responsibilities of the Mayor of Lander are nil.
who 2025-04-19 05:31 p.m.
They have none, as there is no law granting the Mayor any power?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:32 p.m.
There is no law, ordinance, statute, resolution, scrap of paper, note from the Community Administrator conferring any power to the Mayro
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:32 p.m.
Mayor
who 2025-04-19 05:33 p.m.
I will prepare a written ruling
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:34 p.m.
May we get a provisional ruling in advance so both of us can make preparations as necessary, Your Honor?
who 2025-04-19 05:35 p.m.
I will be declaring Clark County and the City of Lander defunct, and issuing an order in favor of the LCPD's counsel to proceed in this action in representing the municipal agency.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 05:35 p.m.
Thank you, Your Honor.
who 2025-04-19 05:37 p.m.
You may file to intervene on behalf of the State's interests in this action under the relevant statute after I order as such @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-19 05:37 p.m.
Sure
Fish 2025-04-19 06:18 p.m.@who so why is voheisa being allowed to represent the PD
who 2025-04-19 06:42 p.m.
https://courts.clarkcounty.site/file-view?id=083abdfe-414e-49ed-88c7-6e1192d10bb6&extension=pdf
You may find my order here@Fish @Brenda @voh ౨ৎ
You may find my order here
who 2025-04-19 06:52 p.m.
The court awaits your amended complaint @Fish
Fish 2025-04-19 06:58 p.m.
It'll be submitted in a bit
who 2025-04-19 07:01 p.m.
Also take notice that the chambers will be closed tomorrow in observance of Easter
Fish 2025-04-19 09:25 p.m.
whohttps://courts.clarkcounty.site/file-view?id=083abdfe-414e-49ed-88c7-6e1192d10bb6&extension=pdf You may find my order here @Fish @Brenda <@788407576...
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 11:22 p.m.
Thank you, Your Honor. We ask @Brenda be removed from the chat.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 11:23 p.m.
We also ask that the Court issue a blanket order prohibiting @Brenda from taking part further in this case as it would be prejudicial to the Defense in this matter. We have already engaged in priviledged attorney-client conversations, including discussing stratergy.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-19 11:23 p.m.
If the State wishes to intervene, we ask you direct it be done through another of the many officers of the Justice Department.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-20 09:36 p.m.
Your honor, we ask that Mr. Vohesia/Morale be removed from the chat and struck as counsel for the LPD.
There is no statute which empowers Mr. Vohesia/Morale to act as legal counsel for any government agency—let alone the LPD. That power remains, regardless of the LPD's municipal nature, one reserved for the Department of Justice or SGO. Her purported position as legal counsel for the LPD is not recognized, established, or supported by any statute.
Title 5, Subhapter 2, Part II of the Mayflower State Code, which lists the torts for which the government may be liable, reads: "GOVERNMENT IMMUNITYAND SOLICITOR GENERAL OVERSIGHT " Moreover, Part IV reads "An action shall not be instituted upon a claim against the State of Mayflower or any political or administrative subdivision thereof ... unless the claimaint shall have first presented the claim to the Department of Justice ". 5 MSC 1 §3202.3 reads: "The Solicitor General may accept settlements on behalf of the government and issue orders or decrees in line with those settlements such that they are within the bounds of the law ..." 5 MSC 1 §3209.3 reads: "The Solicitor General shall defend any civil action ... brought in any court against any employee of the Government "
It is awfully clear that the State Senate intended for the Department of Justice—and the SGO in particular—to defend all lawsuits against the government. Mr. Vohesia/Morale is attempting to usurp that responsibility by appearing as a pseudo-counsel—under color of a position that is not empowered by any statute.
@who (edited)
There is no statute which empowers Mr. Vohesia/Morale to act as legal counsel for any government agency—let alone the LPD. That power remains, regardless of the LPD's municipal nature, one reserved for the Department of Justice or SGO. Her purported position as legal counsel for the LPD is not recognized, established, or supported by any statute.
Title 5, Subhapter 2, Part II of the Mayflower State Code, which lists the torts for which the government may be liable, reads: "GOVERNMENT IMMUNITY
It is awfully clear that the State Senate intended for the Department of Justice—and the SGO in particular—to defend all lawsuits against the government. Mr. Vohesia/Morale is attempting to usurp that responsibility by appearing as a pseudo-counsel—under color of a position that is not empowered by any statute.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-20 09:37 p.m.
(He is also unable to act as counsel due to serving as an Associate Justice on his main account)
BrendaPopplewellYour honor, we ask that Mr. Vohesia/Morale be removed from the chat and struck as counsel for the LPD. There is no statute which empowers Mr. Vohesia/Morale to act as legal counsel...(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-20 09:56 p.m.
Injunctions operate ad personam. Plaintiff requests an injunction which, in effect, orders the LPD's Commisioner or his agent(s) to grant him a position. That in and of itself suffices to trigger §3209.3's language that the Solicitor General must defend the action. Moreover, the statutory context makes it obvious that the Solicitor General has to defend the government, including political and administrative subdivisions.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-20 09:56 p.m.
Either way this case is construed, Mr. Vohesia/Morale is acting ultra vires. Statute empowers only the SGO to defend suits against the government and its employees.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-20 09:58 p.m.
This is also the accepted practice, as the SGO both currently and in the past has defended lawsuits against municipal law enforcement agencies and their employees.
who 2025-04-21 04:54 p.m.
You can respond @voh ౨ৎ
Fish 2025-04-21 05:09 p.m.
should not even be allowed to respond when they’re an alt of mandatory
Fishshould not even be allowed to respond when they’re an alt of mandatory
who 2025-04-21 05:15 p.m.
This allegation is very serious and will not be entertained or allowed by the court against your colleague unless you care to substantiate it.
who 2025-04-21 05:16 p.m.
This is not a place to throw accusations out against colleagues here without substantiation. You are free to provide such substantiation to the court or take your allegations elsewhere.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-21 07:52 p.m.@who I ask that @Brenda be sanctioned by the Court.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-21 07:52 p.m.
They're spreading baseless rumors referring to me as someone else.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-21 07:53 p.m.
An officer of the court should know better then to make misrepresentations like this without anything to back it up.
whoYou can respond @voh ౨ৎ
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-21 07:53 p.m.
I was under the impression the Court had ruled alread.
Fish 2025-04-23 11:35 p.m.@who Ruling?
who 2025-04-24 02:48 a.m.
Ruling tomorrow
who 2025-04-24 07:24 p.m.@voh ౨ৎ , @Brenda - the City of Lander definitely has the authority to represent itself in these proceedings, the Constitution provides it with the necessary "governmental, corporate and proprietary powers" to do so. I have found the LCPD is a municipal agency. I do not think there is a statutory authority for the Solicitor General to represent the LCPD as defense counsel, they are free to intervene to represent the interests of the State under statute. It is true that no statute authorizes the self-representation by the LCPD, however the LCPD is not bound to representation by the Solicitor General either.
whoBrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:26 p.m.
Those powers are transferred to the state government given that Lander is defunct
BrendaPopplewellThose powers are transferred to the state government given that Lander is defunct
who 2025-04-24 07:27 p.m.
Which powers? The powers of the "executive" of the City of Lander to the Governor and the "legislative" of the City of Lander to the Senate.
who 2025-04-24 07:27 p.m.
The "executive" powers of this City are nothing - they do not exist. The legislative power is equally nonexistent.
who 2025-04-24 07:27 p.m.
They have not adopted a charter creating either
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:27 p.m.
The legislative makes the laws, the executive enforces laws, and so on... That clause was intended to say, broadly, "when a city government is defunnct, its powers are transferred to the state."
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:28 p.m.
The police of Lander would fall under the executive
who 2025-04-24 07:28 p.m.
The Governor is free to file an intervention as the Chief Executive of Lander
who 2025-04-24 07:29 p.m.
However, you are not a representative of the Governor acting as the executive of Lander, you are here providing representation under the authority of the Solicitor General, a wholly seperate authority disconnected from the Governor's authority under the Constitution
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:29 p.m.
The Governor is not executive of the Lander Police Department, though.
The Constitution states that the Attorney General is the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer"
The Constitution states that the Attorney General is the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer"
who 2025-04-24 07:29 p.m.
Of the State, sure.
who 2025-04-24 07:30 p.m.
The municipalities are granted independent "governmental, corporate and proprietary powers" to conduct their own business
whoOf the State, sure.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:30 p.m.
No. It says, verbatim: "The Attorney General shall be the Chief Law Enforcement Officer and may audit the respective law enforcement agencies of the State, regardless of which political subdivision. "
BrendaPopplewellYour honor, we ask that Mr. Vohesia/Morale be removed from the chat and struck as counsel for the LPD. There is no statute which empowers Mr. Vohesia/Morale to act as legal counsel...(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:30 p.m.
And Part IV above clearly states: "An action shall not be instituted upon a claim against the State of Mayflower or any political or administrative subdivision thereof ... unless the claimaint shall have first presented the claim to the Department of Justice".
BrendaPopplewellNo. It says, verbatim: "The Attorney General shall be the Chief Law Enforcement Officer and may audit the respective law enforcement agencies of the State, **regardless of which po...
who 2025-04-24 07:30 p.m.
Is this an audit?
whoIs this an audit?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:31 p.m.
No, it's not an audit. But it proves that he's Chief of the Lander Police Department(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:31 p.m.
Otherwise the Constitution wouldn't give him oversight over it
who 2025-04-24 07:31 p.m.
He's the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the State
who 2025-04-24 07:32 p.m.
I don't think there is any reasonable interpretation of the State Constitution where the Attorney General is seen as the head of each law enforcement agency
who 2025-04-24 07:32 p.m.
His status as "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" is not equal to being the head of each law enforcement agency
whoI don't think there is any reasonable interpretation of the State Constitution where the Attorney General is seen as the head of each law enforcement agency
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:32 p.m.
That is literally what it said... After that clause, it continues: "The Attorney General may regulate such agencies, as prescribed and allowed by Law."
who 2025-04-24 07:32 p.m.
As prescribed and allowed by law
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
Yes... but it doesn't change the fact that he's the Chief Law Enforcement Officer
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
Including of municipal LEO agencies
who 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
His regulation begins at where the Senate has prescribed and allowed him to regulate
who 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
Verbatim the text of our Constitution
BrendaPopplewellAnd Part IV above clearly states: "An action shall not be instituted upon a claim against the State of Mayflower or any political or administrative subdivision thereof ... unless t...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
And this? @who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
it clearly states that it's the DOJ's responsibility
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
It doesn't say "must be presented to a psueodo-counsel of the LPD"(edited)
BrendaPopplewellAnd this? @who
who 2025-04-24 07:33 p.m.
Did they present the claim to the Department of Justice?
who 2025-04-24 07:34 p.m.
I'm of the understanding there was an arbitration order
whoDid they present the claim to the Department of Justice?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:34 p.m.
Yes, they did in fact. And now we're here
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:34 p.m.
An order which the LPD did not honor
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:34 p.m.
Though state law mandates that arbitration/mediation decisions are final and binding
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:35 p.m.
I find it hard to believe that the Senate would mandate that the DOJ has oversight over mediation if the Senate intended for each law enforcement agency to create its own legal counsel office (when no law allows it)(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:35 p.m.
The OSG has represented municipal agencies before
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:35 p.m.
e.g. brendapopplewell-v-mersea-police-department-et-al
who 2025-04-24 07:36 p.m.
There is a serious constitutional defect if bodies with "governmental, corporate and proprietary" power are being compelled outside of a court of competent authority
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:36 p.m.
That's not a constitutional defect, that's a political decision
who 2025-04-24 07:37 p.m.
They are no longer mere state agencies but full legal persons with corporate identity
BrendaPopplewellThat's not a constitutional defect, that's a political decision
who 2025-04-24 07:37 p.m.
As was their establishment by the State Senate
who 2025-04-24 07:37 p.m.
You would ask me to disregard one law in favor of another, I won't do this.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:38 p.m.
All municipal agencies have governmental, corporate, and proprietary powers. But they are nonetheless subdivisions of the state, and the Constitution makes it clear that the Attorney General can audit, regulate, and issue directives to them.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:38 p.m.
"As provided by law"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:39 p.m.
Well, that's the law. The law provides for mediation/arbitration orders
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:39 p.m.
The same person who wrote the Constitution wrote the Mayflower State Code
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:39 p.m.
person(s) rather
BrendaPopplewellWell, that's the law. The law provides for mediation/arbitration orders
who 2025-04-24 07:41 p.m.
These mediation/arbitration orders are not absolute law, the Constitution of our State is. I am not convinced that the current arbitration statute denies the right of municipalities to exercise "governmental, corporate and proprietary powers" to conduct "municipal government", which can only be removed by "three-fourths majority in the State Senate."
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:41 p.m.
Mediation/arbitration orders are only issued to enforce the law. It is, in plain terms, a settlement hearing where the parties discuss whether this matter should be taken to court or settled/mediated/arbitrated
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:41 p.m.
In this case, the Attorney General or his assigns is vested with arbitration power
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:42 p.m.
And that is consistent with the Constitution's command that the Attorney General is the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" and may "audit" "regulate" and issue "directives" to those law enforcement agencies.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:43 p.m.
Including, of course, agencies of "political subdivisions"
Fish 2025-04-24 07:43 p.m.@who How can you say that the Attorney General does not have oversight when he is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer?
Fishwho 2025-04-24 07:44 p.m.
I'm not sure where that was said?
Fish 2025-04-24 07:44 p.m.
Well i think you implied it
who 2025-04-24 07:46 p.m.
The simple reality is that municipal governments are guaranteed the authority to conduct municipal government and that their power to do this cannot be diminished without 3/5 of the Senate. The power of the Attorney General to issue regulations is indeed true, in areas where the State Senate has prescribed and allowed him the authority to regulate. Does regulation rise to the authority to deprive a corporate person under the guise of arbitration? Unlikely.
who 2025-04-24 07:47 p.m.
Especially if, as the State would want, they would be unable to seek redress from that arbitration due to an inability to self-represent.
who 2025-04-24 07:48 p.m.
The incompatibility of current statute is a problem for the State to address for the long-term and a problem for this Court to resolve in the present.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:50 p.m.
Assuming that the City of Lander can normally defend itself, that cannot possibly remain true when the city is defunct.
In order to defend itself, the City would have to pass a law authorizing a certain person to appear as its counsel. Here, not only is the City defunct, there is no law which authorizes Vohesia to appear.
@who
In order to defend itself, the City would have to pass a law authorizing a certain person to appear as its counsel. Here, not only is the City defunct, there is no law which authorizes Vohesia to appear.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:50 p.m.
Vohesia is acting ultra vires even under that reading
Fish 2025-04-24 07:51 p.m.
Yes, if the city is defunct then how can it represent itself?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:51 p.m.
You stated earlier that a department must act through its "duly authorized" officers and employees. Vohesia is not duly authorized by any law
who 2025-04-24 07:51 p.m.
Very well. We will have a continuance until such time the Mayflower Elections Commission passes its own judgement on the matter of municipal government.
Fish 2025-04-24 07:51 p.m.@who I move for default judgment. The defendant has failed to file an answer to my complaint. Mayfl. R. Civ. P. 13(a)(1).
Fishwho 2025-04-24 07:51 p.m.
If this were before I ordered continuance, perhaps.
Fish 2025-04-24 07:51 p.m.
What do you need a continuance for
whoVery well. We will have a continuance until such time the Mayflower Elections Commission passes its own judgement on the matter of municipal government.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:52 p.m.
Hold on
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:52 p.m.
Does the Court recognize that the City of Lander's legislature would have the power to authorize an agent to represent it in court?
who 2025-04-24 07:52 p.m.
Yes
whoYes
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:53 p.m.
Then we would ask the Court to declare that that power is transferred to the State Senate
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:53 p.m.
and therefore hold valid the statute which authorizes OSG representation
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:53 p.m.
As any legislative powers of a defunct City are transferred to the State Senate
who 2025-04-24 07:53 p.m.
It would need to have been exercised during the period of time they have held this power, which is not the case currently.
who 2025-04-24 07:53 p.m.
The State Senate would more than likely have to exercise the powers of the City while they possessed the powers of the City.
who 2025-04-24 07:53 p.m.
Not before
Fish 2025-04-24 07:54 p.m.
Doesn't the Senate hold the power since you declared the City defunct? The powers of the city legislature are transferred to the State
FishDoesn't the Senate hold the power since you declared the City defunct? The powers of the city legislature are transferred to the State
who 2025-04-24 07:54 p.m.
Yes
who 2025-04-24 07:54 p.m.
They, to my knowledge, have not exercised this power.
whoThey, to my knowledge, have not exercised this power.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:55 p.m.
But the statute authorizing OSG representation uses very general terms
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:55 p.m.
It says agent "of the government"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:55 p.m.
The simplest thing to do, really in the interests of public policy, is to extend that to this defendant
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:55 p.m.
It has been done before, your honor
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:55 p.m.brendapopplewell-v-mersea-police-department-et-al
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:56 p.m.
In this lawsuit the OSG is also representing the MPD
who 2025-04-24 07:56 p.m.
I think it's in the interest of public policy to interpret the Constitution and statute on the basis of envisioned municipal government guaranteed to its citizens.
who 2025-04-24 07:57 p.m.
If the issue here is a lack of representation, then that is fine. The Court can wait until such time there is a summonable person to represent the Defendants in this action. This will require waiting for the action of the Mayflower Elections Commission.
who 2025-04-24 07:57 p.m.
A continuance has been granted to that effect
Fish 2025-04-24 07:57 p.m.
Why does a continuance need to happen
whoIf the issue here is a lack of representation, then that is fine. The Court can wait until such time there is a summonable person to represent the Defendants in this action. This w...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
The Court can't compel the MEC's action? That's a CA entity
who 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
Yes. I have not compelled the MEC.
who 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
I have compelled the Lieutenant Governor to make a certification to the MEC that was made today.
who 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
We will await the decision of the MEC
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
But this case can't simply be stayed indefinitely—that would surely be detrimental to the plaintiff's interests in pursuing this case
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
Assuming they never take action
BrendaPopplewellBut this case can't simply be stayed indefinitely—that would surely be detrimental to the plaintiff's interests in pursuing this case
who 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
The Plaintiff's interests would be served by having a real defendant
who 2025-04-24 07:58 p.m.
Appearing here
who 2025-04-24 07:59 p.m.
Because the State's Solicitor General is not that currently
who 2025-04-24 07:59 p.m.
Unless the MEC makes a determination that the municipal government is nonexistent.
Fish 2025-04-24 07:59 p.m.
There is a real defendant, that is the LCPD and they should be able to be represented by the OSG, not a person who has no established position
who 2025-04-24 08:00 p.m.
The absolute lack of statute that allows the OSG to appear here would have me decide otherwise
Fish 2025-04-24 08:00 p.m.
There is no reason to sway from other cases which municipals have been represented by OSG
whoThe absolute lack of statute that allows the OSG to appear here would have me decide otherwise
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:00 p.m.
I think the statutes in their current form, as well as precedent from previous lawsuits, are more than sufficient to infer that power
who 2025-04-24 08:01 p.m.
I don't make "inferences of power" where there is clearly conflicting statute and constitutional text to that inference, sadly. I have made my decision and it will be respected by the parties here, as, after all, I am an officer of unwavering impartiality and authority.
whoUnless the MEC makes a determination that the municipal government is nonexistent.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:02 p.m.
By finding the City defunct, you've sort of done that already. The Lander Police Department can't be an agency of a government that is defunct. I think the Constitution intended for it to become a state agency
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:02 p.m.
(as soon as it becomes defunct)
BrendaPopplewellBy finding the City defunct, you've sort of done that already. The Lander Police Department can't be an agency of a government that is defunct. I think the Constitution intended fo...
who 2025-04-24 08:03 p.m.
The "defunct" nature of a City government in the Constitution is only an administrative term to describe a municipal government awaiting fresh elections, not that it is no longer existent.
Fish 2025-04-24 08:03 p.m.
What
whoThe "defunct" nature of a City government in the Constitution is only an administrative term to describe a municipal government awaiting fresh elections, not that it is no longer e...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:03 p.m.
Not just that, all its powers are transferred to the state....
Fish 2025-04-24 08:03 p.m.
You just said their powers were transferred
Fish 2025-04-24 08:03 p.m.
how are they trasnferred if its not defunct
who 2025-04-24 08:04 p.m.
"It must be emphasized that while defunction is an administrative and constitutional classification, it does not abolish the existence of the municipality or county. Both continue as legal entities, albeit under the executive and legislative power transferred to a temporary trusteeship of the State, pending election."
"The responsibilities and duties vested in the County Executive and Executive of the City of Lander by the Clark County Charter are transferred to the Governor of the State of Mayflower."
If you would read the order you are fighting about right now it would be easier for you to stop arguing.
"The responsibilities and duties vested in the County Executive and Executive of the City of Lander by the Clark County Charter are transferred to the Governor of the State of Mayflower."
If you would read the order you are fighting about right now it would be easier for you to stop arguing.
Fish 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
I have one question
who 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
1: The Executive of the City of Lander is nothing. There is no authority there. The authority of any "executive" (mayor) held in the City is nothing.
who 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
There is no Charter granting any authority, or authorizing the exercise of any power.
Fish 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
Why does the MEC need to certify the defunctness?
who1: The Executive of the City of Lander is nothing. There is no authority there. The authority of any "executive" (mayor) held in the City is nothing.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
The Executive would be the executive branch—including the LPD.
who 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
They don't
who 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
The Lieutenant Governor does
who 2025-04-24 08:05 p.m.
and has
Fish 2025-04-24 08:06 p.m.
No
Fish 2025-04-24 08:06 p.m.
the lieutenant governor certifies an election
Fish 2025-04-24 08:06 p.m.
not the defunctness
Fish 2025-04-24 08:06 p.m.
the defunctness is automatic
who 2025-04-24 08:06 p.m.
I declared the defunctness
Fish 2025-04-24 08:06 p.m.
Okay so why does there need to be a continuance then? I'm utterly confused
who 2025-04-24 08:06 p.m.
The Lieutenant Governor certified that to the MEC
FishOkay so why does there need to be a continuance then? I'm utterly confused
who 2025-04-24 08:07 p.m.
Pending action of the MEC, there could very well be a city government capable of representation. This representation would be far less shoddy than representation by the OSG or by the self-representation of the LCPD.
Fish 2025-04-24 08:08 p.m.
The powers are transferred to the State as of now though, and under the general reading of the authority of the Solicitor General, they would have the authority to represent the defendant, until the powers are devolved
FishThe powers are transferred to the State as of now though, and under the general reading of the authority of the Solicitor General, they would have the authority to represent the de...
who 2025-04-24 08:08 p.m.
The "powers" of the capital E "Executive" are transferred to the Governor.
who 2025-04-24 08:09 p.m.
What this power brings with it? Nothing. There is no charter deciding what authority the Executive of the City of Lander possesses. No one can claim to know what that authority is because it does not exist.
who 2025-04-24 08:10 p.m.
The blend of authority of a hypothetical charter is unknown to this Court.
who 2025-04-24 08:11 p.m.
So we will wait for the determination of the MEC on the possibility that there may exist a City of Lander as a real entity, as opposed to the paper corporation it is now.
whoWhat this power brings with it? Nothing. There is no charter deciding what authority the Executive of the City of Lander possesses. No one can claim to know what that authority is ...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:12 p.m.
Reading in-between the lines, it is evident that the Framers did not actually mean it to be read so narrowly. That Clause could essentially be rewritten: "When a city is defunct, its legislative, executive, and judicial powers are transferred to the state." We wouldn't take, for example, the Establishment Clause and hold that it only applies to laws by Congress and not to actions by the executive and judicial branches.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:12 p.m.
The intent of that clause is key here
BrendaPopplewellReading in-between the lines, it is evident that the Framers did not actually mean it to be read so narrowly. That Clause could essentially be rewritten: "When a city is defunct, i...
who 2025-04-24 08:13 p.m.
There is nothing that suggests this. It uses explicit language in reference to an "Executive" and "Legislative", and that the Governor shall assume the "responsibilities and duties" of the former and the Senate the later.(edited)
who 2025-04-24 08:13 p.m.
The "responsibilities and duties" of the Executive of the City of Lander are utterly nonexistent.
who 2025-04-24 08:14 p.m.
No authority can be brought from implication from this term, as the "responsibilities and duties" of the Executive of the City of Lander are entirely the business of the City Charter which is nonexistent.
who 2025-04-24 08:15 p.m.
In many places, the "executive" of a city is nothing more than an administrative tool of the legislature. I can't infer authority from a proper noun being given to a organ of the city government.
Fish 2025-04-24 08:17 p.m.@who How long is the continuance for?
who 2025-04-24 08:17 p.m.
The Court will use its skills in patience to wait for the determination of the MEC on the existence of the City, if they deny that elections will be held, I will assume that the City does not exist under the Constitutional framework and that the OSG is more than likely the proper representative of the LCPD.
who 2025-04-24 08:17 p.m.
If elections for the City are held, we will wait for representation from the City.
Fish 2025-04-24 08:18 p.m.
So how long are we waiting for then?
who 2025-04-24 08:18 p.m.
Until such time the MEC gets back to us
Fish 2025-04-24 08:18 p.m.
So it could be for the rest of eternity
who 2025-04-24 08:19 p.m.
This case can't proceed until there is clarity in who is responsible to respond to your allegations. The political dysfunction of the State government in this regard is outside of this Court's purview.
who 2025-04-24 08:20 p.m.
I can't confirm if a proper party has been summoned here or not to respond to you
who 2025-04-24 08:20 p.m.
I am confident that the MEC will make a timely decision, however.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-24 08:32 p.m.@who There is a new Acting Attorney General
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-24 08:32 p.m.
Can we confirm that Mx. @Brenda pursuing this is in his interest
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-24 08:33 p.m.
And that xe's done xir due dillegence
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:33 p.m.
I'm not sure who Xe and Xir are? @who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:34 p.m.
Are those the acting attorney general(s)
who 2025-04-24 08:34 p.m.
I have inferred he is speaking of you I believe
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-24 08:34 p.m.
Oh, interesting
mike_bn 2025-04-25 12:49 a.m.
Finally! A unique case! @who
voh ౨ৎCan we confirm that Mx. @Brenda pursuing this is in his interest
voh ౨ৎ 2025-04-25 01:47 p.m.@who
Fish 2025-04-28 04:42 p.m.@who How much longer do we have to wait
who 2025-04-29 02:42 a.m.
An order is being prepared
who 2025-04-29 07:36 p.m.
Sadly my area has been ravaged by hail, a thunderstorm and tornados today so I don’t have internet at the moment - will be a short delay likely
whoSadly my area has been ravaged by hail, a thunderstorm and tornados today so I don’t have internet at the moment - will be a short delay likely
BrendaPopplewell 2025-04-29 10:47 p.m.
Take all the time you need, I hope things settle down for you soon.
who 2025-05-02 06:52 p.m.
Okay. I have returned. Order tonight
whoOkay. I have returned. Order tonight
Fish 2025-05-02 07:31 p.m.
Very Well. I will be waiting.
Fish 2025-05-03 12:13 a.m.@who still coming?
who 2025-05-03 06:02 p.m.
I will vacate the earlier order, @Fish and @Brenda you're free to draft a consent decree
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-03 06:04 p.m.
Thank you, your honor
whoI will vacate the earlier order, @Fish and @Brenda you're free to draft a consent decree
Fish 2025-05-03 06:04 p.m.
Thank you judge. I ask that vohesia be removed.
who used /remove
clerkFlow Bot2025-05-03 06:06 p.m. @who has removed @voh ౨ৎ from the case channel.
Case Modified
Fish 2025-05-03 06:16 p.m.@who Requesting leave to amend the complaint.
who 2025-05-03 06:17 p.m.
Sure
Fish 2025-05-03 06:17 p.m.
Will have it when im home
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-03 09:37 p.m.
The parties will be presenting a consent judgment for this Court's consideration soon.
@who @Fish
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-03 10:00 p.m.
The parties propose this Consent Judgment and Order and move the Court to approve and enter it into the record.
Entered into by the Solicitor General's Office under 5 MSC 1 § 3202.3,et seq.
@who @Fish
Entered into by the Solicitor General's Office under 5 MSC 1 § 3202.3,
Fish 2025-05-06 12:27 p.m.@who
Fish 2025-05-08 06:34 p.m.@who
who 2025-05-08 07:06 p.m.
Granted dismissed with prejudice contact me if the court is required for anything else relating to the order
whoGranted dismissed with prejudice contact me if the court is required for anything else relating to the order
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-08 07:33 p.m.
Wonderful. Would you like to me to add your signature?
whoGranted dismissed with prejudice contact me if the court is required for anything else relating to the order
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-08 07:33 p.m.
cc @Fish
BrendaPopplewellWonderful. Would you like to me to add your signature?
who 2025-05-08 07:35 p.m.
Sure
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-08 07:41 p.m.@who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-08 10:56 p.m.
For the record, I've distributed a copy of the judgment to the LPD Commissioner and I'm awaiting his compliance.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-09 07:03 p.m.
Hello
I’ve received the following reply from the LPD Commissioner:
@who @Fish
I’ve received the following reply from the LPD Commissioner:
Unfortunately, there are no available positions left in the IA division. Mr. Gardai is able to join patrol services if he is interested, though he will have to go through the academy with the next class.
Alternatively, we can contact Mr. Gardai once a position opens up in IA.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-09 07:03 p.m.
It appears that they will not be complying with the order
who 2025-05-09 07:07 p.m.
what is the lcpd budget @Brenda
whowhat is the lcpd budget @Brenda
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-09 07:13 p.m.
3 MSC 1 §2202(a) provides the LPD can employ 145 employees
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-09 07:14 p.m. 
Fish 2025-05-09 07:23 p.m.
I’m sure they can just make another spot
Fish 2025-05-09 07:23 p.m.
A division being “full” is no excuse
Fish 2025-05-09 07:23 p.m.
And asking me to complete an academy is also overextending
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-09 07:24 p.m.
Their Roblox group states they have 75 employees. The LPD Commissioner is fully capable of appointing James_Gardai to the position in question.
@who
BrendaPopplewellTheir Roblox group states they have 75 employees. The LPD Commissioner is fully capable of appointing James_Gardai to the position in question. @who
who 2025-05-09 07:27 p.m.
Do LCPD candidates typically go through an academy?
whoDo LCPD candidates typically go through an academy?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-09 07:29 p.m.
I don't know. I don't see anything in the MSC about that
whoDo LCPD candidates typically go through an academy?
Fish 2025-05-10 11:00 a.m.
Even if they do, that was not a part of the agreement
Fish 2025-05-10 11:01 a.m.
Can this court issue an OSC?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-10 10:30 p.m.@who We ask the Court to enforce the order. The LPD Commissioner is refusing to comply
BrendaPopplewell Server2025-05-10 10:30 p.m.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-10 10:31 p.m.
The so-called "budget" he has dictated conflicts with 3 MSC 1 § 2202(a) (which defines the budget for the LPD as up to "145 employees")
@who
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-10 10:32 p.m.
And also 3 MSC 1 § 2104(a) ("The term "budget" shal refer to: The limitations on employment and membership within a government agency as afforded by law ")
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-10 10:33 p.m.
He's violating this Court's order, and state law, by changing the budget to prevent Gardai's appointment.
BrendaPopplewellwho 2025-05-11 08:29 p.m.
When I call the chief to show cause are you going to represent him
whoWhen I call the chief to show cause are you going to represent him
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-11 08:35 p.m.
The SGO only represents employees in lawsuits, not for OSCs. Presumably not
Fish 2025-05-12 12:41 a.m.@who when is the court gonna issue an OSC(edited)
who 2025-05-12 09:40 p.m.
i have received this
who 2025-05-12 09:40 p.m.@Brenda @Fish
whoi have received this
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-12 09:53 p.m.
Two things. Vohesia asked Dero to say that before he even knew that there was an arbitration order as shown in this part of the chat. As you can see, I said "there is a[n] active arbitration order in that case" (issued by the previous AG), to which Dero responded "whats the order". After that,
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-12 09:53 p.m.
(I'm gonna redact some parts as the GC is confidential)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-12 09:53 p.m.
And second of all, this was before this Court established that the LCPD is a state agency (due to CA's failure to host city elections)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-12 09:54 p.m.
Due to it now being a state agency, the LCPD (I assume Dero was referring to Vohesia ) cannot defend itself, as the SGO has a statutory duty to defend it
BrendaPopplewellTwo things. Vohesia asked Dero to say that before he even knew that there was an arbitration order as shown in this part of the chat. As you can see, I said "there is a[n] active a...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-12 09:55 p.m.
4
(After this, he never said anything further about the matter)
4BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-12 09:55 p.m.
cc: @who
FishFish 2025-05-13 01:09 p.m.@who
Fish 2025-05-15 09:10 p.m.@who can the court please issue an OSC
Fish 2025-05-18 03:29 a.m.@who
Fish 2025-05-18 12:40 p.m.@who Is there a reason why you are active in your other cases but you ignore me in this one for 7 days and counting?
who 2025-05-18 12:42 p.m.@Fish Attorney general will be summoned to speak on the stance of the Department of Justice. It is clear that the Court has been weary on what has happened in the Department of Justice regarding this litigation from day one.
whoFish 2025-05-18 12:43 p.m.
for what reason
Fish 2025-05-18 12:43 p.m.
the Attorney General never gave Brenda a directive, LCPD legally cannot represent itself
Fish 2025-05-18 12:44 p.m.
and if the Attorney General ever wanted this proceeding to go a different way he could have just came here and said it himself
Fish 2025-05-18 12:44 p.m.
This is an utter waste of time, vohesia is just trying to mislead
who 2025-05-18 12:44 p.m.
I have stated my suspicions that this was a friendly case from the beginning, Mr. Gardai. We will simply recieve word from the Attorney General before I order to show cause. @Fish
who 2025-05-18 12:44 p.m.
I am sorry you have one week less of court-imposed employment, however, I am cautious to do such a thing when there is doubt in the court's eye.
Fish 2025-05-18 12:45 p.m.
lol i dont care that it's one week less i expected at the minimum for you to not ignore me and tell me what is going to happen after i have been asking you for more than a week
Fish 2025-05-19 05:02 p.m.@who Can you add the Attorney General so we can get this over with
shah 2025-05-20 07:56 a.m.@meowiitten assigned
shah 2025-05-20 07:56 a.m.
The prothonotary will change pls
Fish 2025-05-20 07:57 a.m.@meowiitten can you issue an OSC
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 07:59 a.m.
Hello
shah used /add
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Case Modified
shah used /add
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Case Modified
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:17 a.m.@Brenda Where are we at
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:17 a.m.
I read all of the documents
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:17 a.m.
So basically
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:17 a.m.
The court approved a consent judgment
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:17 a.m.
but the LCPD refuses to comply
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:18 a.m.
they claim that the IA division is full (after, on information and belief , forging their official google sheet document)
@meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:18 a.m.
let's just say.... 1 seat in that division magically vanished
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:18 a.m.
I’m past that issue I can remedy that
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:19 a.m.
I’m more interested in the stance of the attorney general on the consent judgment
sadoimpactoI’m more interested in the stance of the attorney general on the consent judgment
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:19 a.m.
I don't know what his thoughts are, but I can't imagine it's relevant, your honor
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:19 a.m.
He hasn't given me any excplicit directives
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:19 a.m.
He made one statement that Vohesia coached him to say
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:20 a.m.
In a confidential gc
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:20 a.m.
And when I informed him of the premises (which he were unaware of) he went quiet
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:31 a.m.
Also, I'd point the Court's attention to 5 MSC 1 § 3202.3 which provides that the SGO is empowered to accept settlements on behalf of the government
@meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:33 a.m.
The statutory scheme makes it evident that it's the SGO, and not the Attorney General, who is entrusted with making these forms of decisions
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:34 a.m.
If he really wanted me off this case, he should have, and could have, terminated me from my position
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:35 a.m.
But he hasn't done so. And it's custom in the DOJ that, when one of us is assigned to a case, we have discretion to handle it as we deem fit
BrendaPopplewellThe statutory scheme makes it evident that it's the SGO, and not the Attorney General, who is entrusted with making these forms of decisions
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:36 a.m.
I would say on a line-level basis but certainly he has the final say
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:36 a.m.
Either way I’m just figuring out the timeline
sadoimpactoI would say on a line-level basis but certainly he has the final say
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:39 a.m.
Maybe so. But he has made no statement in regards to the Consent Judgment and Order
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:39 a.m.
He said, during a time in which there was uncertainty over whether the LPD was a municipal or state agency , "let the LCPD defend themselves, its okay"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:39 a.m.
But later in this case, the Court determined that the SGO must defend because it's a state agency
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:40 a.m.
And the Court recanted its previous order to the contrary in its entirety(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:41 a.m.
(And any directive to let Vohesia, who is not an attorney for the government, defend a state agency would clearly be void. The Senate decided expressly that the SGO has that responsibility—and delegating it to a non-DOJ employee would be ultra vires)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:42 a.m.
But again, I don't interpret what he said as a directive/order
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:42 a.m.
He was confused and was coached by Vohesia
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:42 a.m.
I’m not going to say anything about the veracity of that
BrendaPopplewellBut later in this case, the Court determined that the SGO must defend because it's a state agency
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:42 a.m.
How was this determined
sadoimpactoHow was this determined
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:43 a.m.
The Court ended up giving CA an ultimatum: host city elections as the Constitution requires or don't
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:43 a.m.
They ended up not hosting city elections
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:43 a.m.
And, therefore, the City government can't actually be considered real
sadoimpactoHow was this determined
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:44 a.m.
We also discussed a clause stating that the City becomes defunct if it's vacant for 30 days (or something along those lines)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:44 a.m.
which is in the Constitution
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:44 a.m.
You can find it by doing a filter search ctrl+f for "Defunct"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:44 a.m.
In the event that a legislature of a County or Municipality has failed to meet on record for thirty days, it shall be deemed defunct and the State Senate shall assume its duties and responsibilities. In the event that the Executive of any County or Municipality has been absent for thirty days, he shall be deemed defunct and the responsibilities and duties of his office shall be transferred to the Governor. The Lieutenant Governor shall certify to the Mayflower Elections Commission for new elections within seven days of a body being declared defunct. At the conclusion of voting, the responsibilities of those respective bodies shall be devolved back to them and they shall no longer be considered defunct.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:45 a.m.
Fair enough
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 10:46 a.m.@Brenda Was there an actual physical contract or was it an implied contract
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:47 a.m.
It was a verbal agreement
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:47 a.m.
Well, "verbal" it was discord texts I believe
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 10:47 a.m.@Fish
Fish 2025-05-20 11:06 a.m.
Yes
Fish 2025-05-20 11:07 a.m.
The consent judgment just needs to be enforced
FishThe consent judgment just needs to be enforced
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:36 a.m.
Which part is not being enforced
sadoimpactoWhich part is not being enforced
Fish 2025-05-20 11:36 a.m.
they are not employing me
Fish 2025-05-20 11:36 a.m.
and from what brenda said it seems like they retaliated in the beginning by removing a spot from the division
Fishthey are not employing me
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:37 a.m.
So you are asking for specific performance of employment
sadoimpactoSo you are asking for specific performance of employment
Fish 2025-05-20 11:41 a.m.
that was a part of the consent judgment that they would employ me yes
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:43 a.m.
This is what I'm going to do
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:43 a.m.
Since there seems to be a disconnect between the AG and the deputy SG here
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:47 a.m.PAPERLESS ORDER: Following the Court’s receipt of representations made by the Attorney General disputing the consent judgment entered by the Deputy Solicitor General on behalf of the Defendant, the Court hereby DIRECTS the Attorney General to file, if at all, a brief within forty-eight (48) hours from the entry of this Order stating any legal or factual basis upon which the Court should not recognize or enforce the consent judgment. Absent such a filing, the Court will proceed forthwith with show cause proceedings and enforcement of the consent judgment without further delay. District Judge sadoimpacto (SJI) (Entered: 05/20/2025)
@dero @Fish @Brenda
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
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Case Modified
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 11:48 a.m.
Can we make that 24 hours @meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-20 11:48 a.m.
The AG is online daily
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:49 a.m.
It can be 48 since I likely won't be able to review it tomorrow anyway
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:49 a.m.
I'm travelling
sadoimpacto 2025-05-20 11:49 a.m.
So 5/22 at 11:43 AM Eastern is the cutoff
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 06:54 a.m.@meowiitten I'm hereby informing the Court that a position opened up in the IA office. 
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 06:54 a.m.
I checked the LPD's Google sheets yesterday, and there was an open position. However, after checking it today, it appears they quickly removed that open spot to prevent the Court from appointing James.
@meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 06:54 a.m.
As such, we'll be asking for criminal contempt and civil contempt proceedings
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 06:55 a.m.
And the DOJ will be looking into whether to launch a criminal investigation and/or civil penalty proceedings in parens patriae.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 06:55 a.m.
God bless
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 06:57 a.m.Before 
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 06:57 a.m.After (today) 
BrendaPopplewellBrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 07:01 a.m.
I can also testify to the fact that LI04 was blank yesterday. There was no name there
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 07:01 a.m.
They inserted that name just to violate this Court's consent order
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:13 p.m.
Well
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:13 p.m.
The AG didn’t brief at all
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:16 p.m.
Your honor, upon conviction for contempt, we ask that the contemnor(s) be prohibited from serving as peace officers for 50 days pursuant to 4 MSC 5 § 1601(d).
@meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:16 p.m.
In all my years of public service, this is the most egregious stunt I've ever seen
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:16 p.m.
And it must be met with vehement punishment
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:17 p.m.
Well I find the circumstances of this case incredibly odd and jarring
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:17 p.m.
And I mean the merits as well
sadoimpactoThe AG didn’t brief at all
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:17 p.m.
Given the recent escalations.. I think he's seen the light
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:19 p.m.
Particularly where a single inferior officer within the department of justice drafted a consent judgment mandating that a government agency hire a litigant where the superior of said inferior officer (according to this record) appears to be at odds with the terms of the consent judgment
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:19 p.m.
Even though he didn’t brief its very difficult to ignore his recorded contest
sadoimpactoParticularly where a single inferior officer within the department of justice drafted a consent judgment mandating that a government agency hire a litigant where the superior of sa...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:19 p.m.
I can understand how that may appear
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:20 p.m.
But I did not construe what he said, during a time of uncertainty about the municipal/state nature of the LCPD, to be a directive
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:20 p.m.
And it can't be said to nullify the consent judgment entered by statutory authority of the SGO
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:20 p.m.
In any case, him not breifing in opposition must be taken as ratification @meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:20 p.m.
He was given ample time and opportunity, and it's been discussed internally, and he clearly made a choice not to brief in opposition
BrendaPopplewellBut I did not construe what he said, during a time of uncertainty about the municipal/state nature of the LCPD, to be a directive
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:21 p.m.
In the event that it was a directive, it's not one that I can lawfully follow. The SGO must represent the state
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:22 p.m.
and the Solicitor General expressed in an internal conversation about this that this power can't be given to some officer that the LPD can choose @meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:23 p.m. 
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:23 p.m.
And clearly Dero didn't brief to the contrary, so I think this is a non-issue at this point
BrendaPopplewellAnd it can't be said to nullify the consent judgment entered by statutory authority of the SGO
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:24 p.m.
The AG is constitutionally the head of the department of justice
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:24 p.m.
Surely he has the power to override your judgment?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:24 p.m.
Or else he wouldn't be able to say, hire and fire inferior officers–such as yourself
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:24 p.m.
Well I think—the same way Trump can fire Pam Bondi—he can't directly control their acts
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:25 p.m.
But either way, Dero hasn't filed a brief in opposition
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:25 p.m.
And he hasn't requested an extension of time suggesting that he will
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:25 p.m.
I've considered that but I still find the record jarring
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:25 p.m.
Where I am placed in an unsavory position
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:28 p.m.
I don't know. I think the message he made weeks, or maybe months ago at this point, in a private GC is being blown way out of proportion
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:29 p.m.
I think it's inappropriate to vacate the Consent Order at this point in time
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:29 p.m.
The Court found the terms appropriate and the SGO has done nothing but do its job
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:29 p.m.@meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:31 p.m.
At the end of the day, the Solicitor General is a discretionary officer. Unlike ministerial officers, he has discretionary powers that he can exercise without the consent of his superiors
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:31 p.m.
The only way Dero would be able to —lawfully—override the SGO's decisions would be to fire us and replace us
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:32 p.m.
I would disagree with the assessment that you act without the consent of your superiors
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:32 p.m.
Your authority rests on delegation
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:32 p.m.
Mine, yes
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:32 p.m.
I meant the SG Nicklaus
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:32 p.m.
He has a whole section in the MSC giving him various powers
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:34 p.m.
Well, do you wanna bring in Dero or Nicklaus to see if they will support the consent judgment
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 12:34 p.m.
Because i think Dero has indicated that he will not oppose it
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:34 p.m.
I'd like to hear from the AG himself
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:34 p.m.@dero
sadoimpacto used /add
clerkFlow Bot2025-05-22 12:39 p.m. @meowiitten has added @Nicklaus to the case channel.
Case Modified
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:39 p.m.@Nicklaus You could also enlighten us
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 12:39 p.m.
Perhaps
dero 2025-05-22 01:18 p.m.@meowiitten Im sorry i dont have the time to make it a whole brief but LCPD did inform me that they did not consent to the way this case was resolved
derosadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:19 p.m.
Did you authorize the consent judgment?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:19 p.m.
Or endorse it in any way
sadoimpactoDid you authorize the consent judgment?
dero 2025-05-22 01:21 p.m.
No, your honor. I actually told the assigned attorney BrendaPopplewell to allow LCPD to defend themselves. Regardless of what people think as to Lander's absility to defend its own interests my comment should have been seen as deference to what the Lander Police wanted.
dero 2025-05-22 01:21 p.m.
I am also told by Mister Nicklaus that he informed BrendaPopplewell to speak to LCPD before the consent judgment and he did not speak to them
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:22 p.m.
Right
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:22 p.m.
And if I may ask
deroI am also told by Mister Nicklaus that he informed BrendaPopplewell to speak to LCPD before the consent judgment and he did not speak to them
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:23 p.m.
I would interject here and say that I did speak to Vohesia
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:24 p.m.
And I heard their position before exercising the SGO's statutory power to accept the consent decree
dero 2025-05-22 01:24 p.m.
Okay
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:25 p.m.
I would also interject about refering to Vohesia as "the LCPD" @meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:25 p.m.
They're a person. 101waves is a person
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:25 p.m.
They, of course, do not represent the state in legal matters
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:25 p.m.
But we do listen to their side
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:25 p.m.
Being that they are government actors and witnesses
dero 2025-05-22 01:25 p.m.
Okay so... you didnt speak to the LPD then
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:26 p.m.
I said I spoke to Vohesia
dero 2025-05-22 01:26 p.m.
if vohesia isnt referred to as LCPD then you were not speaking to LCPD
BrendaPopplewellI would interject here and say that I did speak to Vohesia
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:26 p.m.
I did speak to Vohesia
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:26 p.m.
I said "I did speak to Vohesia"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:26 p.m.
I corrected you implicitly
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:26 p.m.
as I am a very precise individual
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:26 p.m.
and i prefer precise verbiage
dero 2025-05-22 01:27 p.m.
Assumed you were implying that you did speak to LCPD before entering the decree like you were (as im told) instructed
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:27 p.m.@meowiitten Would I be correct in saying that the relevant question now is whether Derogatoryyy currently supports entry of consent judgment
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:27 p.m.
If the Court wants to nullify over a vague statement he made
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:27 p.m.
Then we should have the opportunity to redo this entire thing
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:27 p.m.
And Dero should have the opportunity to say whether he will support a new consent decree
dero 2025-05-22 01:28 p.m.
I say we wait to see what Your Honor was about to say first
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:35 p.m.
Well... how would the LCPD be expected to honor a consent judgment that requires the specific performance of employment... and presumably retention... when our constitutional and statutory scheme provides that the AG can essentially just fire Mr. Gardai–and similar line-level officers under him with the department of justice's subagencies–whenever he wants? That would certainly undermine the consent judgment–but our law allows Mr. Dero to do just that, and I am not prepared to say he cannot.
I draw this conclusion from 3 M.S.C. 1 §§ 8201-8202, 8204, 8206-8207, and Mayfl. Const. art. VI, §§ 1 ("The Attorney General is the head of the Department of Justice.") and 2 ("The Attorney General shall be the Chief Law Enforcement Officer and may audit the respective law enforcement agencies of the State, regardless of which political subdivision. The Attorney General may regulate such agencies, as prescribed and allowed by Law.")
Would the consent judgment bar Mr. Dero from exercising his implied authority as Attorney General to fire and remove Mr. Gardai on his own initiative? Or just the LCPD's superiors?
@Brenda
I draw this conclusion from 3 M.S.C. 1 §§ 8201-8202, 8204, 8206-8207, and Mayfl. Const. art. VI, §§ 1 ("The Attorney General is the head of the Department of Justice.") and 2 ("The Attorney General shall be the Chief Law Enforcement Officer and may audit the respective law enforcement agencies of the State, regardless of which political subdivision. The Attorney General may regulate such agencies, as prescribed and allowed by Law.")
Would the consent judgment bar Mr. Dero from exercising his implied authority as Attorney General to fire and remove Mr. Gardai on his own initiative? Or just the LCPD's superiors?
sadoimpactoWell... how would the LCPD be expected to honor a consent judgment that requires the specific performance of employment... and presumably retention... when our constitutional and...
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:37 p.m.
I considered this as well, your honor. I say it would not.
The LCPD and the AG retains the right to at-will Mr. Gardai in the future. The Consent Judgment and Order does not prevent them from doing so.
The LCPD and the AG retains the right to at-will Mr. Gardai in the future. The Consent Judgment and Order does not prevent them from doing so.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:37 p.m.
The only thing the order does is prevent them from retaliating to his litigation of this case.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:37 p.m.
They can at-will him tomorrow and say "Poor performance" or any other reason, or no reason at all
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:37 p.m.
But they cannot retaliate to him exercising his right to petition the courts for a reddress of grievances
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:38 p.m.
That would be depriving him of a benefit in violation of the Constitution, and that's all the order seeks to prevent
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:39 p.m.@Brenda Now what do you have to say about the Attorney General's current objections to the consent judgment?
sadoimpactoBrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:40 p.m.
I think he has his perception of what happened. And I have my perception of what happened. And they're both two different sides to the story.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:40 p.m.
I've spoken at length about why I believe the Consent Order is valid
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:40 p.m.
I think if the Court feels uneasy then it should vacate it and allow us to remake it with Dero's consent
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:40 p.m.
Cause clearly this will not go anywhere until he does consent
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:40 p.m.
Or that's my impression at the very least
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:41 p.m.
I also note Mayfl. R. Civ P. 39(b):
"On motion and upon such terms as are just, the court may relieve a party or a party's legal representative from a final judgment, decree, order, or proceeding for the following reasons: (1) mistake, inadvertence, surprise, or excusable neglect; ... (3) fraud (whether heretofore denominated intrinsic or extrinsic), misrepresentation, or other misconduct of an adverse party; ... (4) that the judgment, decree, or order is void; ... This rule does not limit the power of a court to entertain an independent action to relieve a party from a judgment, decree, order, or proceeding or to set aside a judgment, decree, or order for fraud upon the court."
BrendaPopplewellThey can at-will him tomorrow and say "Poor performance" or any other reason, or no reason at all
Fish 2025-05-22 01:41 p.m.
The nature of an at will the day after would inherently be retaliatory, the Ridgeway Supreme Court has gone in depth to that for precedent
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:41 p.m.
Again, I am in no way inclined to consider anything from an outside jurisdiction that might as well be non-existent
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:42 p.m.
As I remined you about NHC, Ridgeway, and Firestone precedent
BrendaPopplewellI think if the Court feels uneasy then it should vacate it and allow us to remake it with Dero's consent
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:42 p.m.@meowiitten This would be my reply
sadoimpactoAgain, I am in no way inclined to consider anything from an outside jurisdiction that might as well be non-existent
Fish 2025-05-22 01:42 p.m.
I know, im just saying bc it gives guiding light that can assist the court
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:43 p.m.
But again, I believe the Order to be valid in its current form
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:43 p.m.
And let me say this
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:43 p.m.
If the Court is basing this on Dero saying "Let [Vohesia]" defend the LCPD then the inquiry should be "Was that directive lawful?"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:43 p.m.
Because the Solicitor General and I do not believe it to be a lawful directive
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:43 p.m.
And if it was not lawful, then it was void.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:44 p.m.
That would depend on what you define as being part of the Department of Justice
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:44 p.m.
Certainly, the LCPD (since the dissolving of the municipal government) is a state agency under the DOJ
sadoimpactoCertainly, the LCPD (since the dissolving of the municipal government) is a state agency under the DOJ
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:45 p.m.
That's a very dangerous suggestion to make, your honor. The DOJ is a legal entity separate from the LCPD—though all peace officers are subject to the AG's authority
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:45 p.m.
I think it's very dangerous to suggest that a police officer is a member of the DOJ
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:45 p.m.
But we all agree that they're subject to the AG's authority
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:47 p.m.
(I mean, by that theory, the AG could appoint and fire the Commissioner of the LCPD. Which, of course, is not true)
BrendaPopplewell(I mean, by that theory, the AG could appoint and fire the Commissioner of the LCPD. Which, of course, is not true)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:49 p.m.
well I would retract this given he's "chief"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:49 p.m.
But I stand by my argument that they're not DOJ members
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:49 p.m.
Those are just.... 2 separate departments
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:51 p.m.
And the issue would be confounded given that some LEO agencies are under certain departments.
The DSS is under the Department of State
The PAP is under the Port Authority of Mayflower & Quanahasit
The DSS is under the Department of State
The PAP is under the Port Authority of Mayflower & Quanahasit
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:51 p.m.
If the Senate intended for the LCPD to be under the DOJ, this would similarly have been expressed in our statutes. But it's not
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:51 p.m.
And even if they were under the DOJ, they wouldn't members of the DOJ in the sense that they are attorneys for the government
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:52 p.m.
I hope I'm making sense
BrendaPopplewellThat's a very dangerous suggestion to make, your honor. The DOJ is a legal entity separate from the LCPD—though all peace officers are subject to the AG's authority
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 01:58 p.m.
Mayfl. Const. art. VI, § 2 ("The Attorney General may delegate any of his authorities to his subordinates, as he prescribes."); 3 M.S.C. 1 § 8211 ("The Solicitor General, or any officer of the Department of Justice, may be sent by the Attorney General to any Court in the State of Mayflower to attend to the interests of the State of Mayflower[.]").
I don't think that I would ever be in the proper position to determine the political structure of the DOJ, meaning it would be up to him who he sends as "any officer of the Department of Justice" to represent the state's interests–so long as they are licensed by the bar.Z.A. v. San Bruno Park Sch. Dist. , 165 F.3d 1273, 1276 (9th Cir. 1999) ("A person is or is not licensed to practice law in a particular forum. There is no halfway. If not licensed, one cannot practice in that forum[.]").
But what is clear to me is that there is simply a deference to the Solicitor General, not a mandate. That's why the AG can choose to represent the State himself in Court... or he can let the SG do it... or he can contract a private law firm to do it, as is often done by the U.S. Department of Justice for complex civil litigation. In my reading, he can certainly let the LCPD's legal counsel represent that State–assuming "Vohesia" is their counsel. I don't see how that wouldn't be possible.
Moreover, there is no contest to whether the municipal government is defunct. When it goes defunct, all of its instrumentalities are assumed by the authority of the Governor and the Senate. Mayfl. Const. art. V, § 12 mandates that "[e]ach principal department shall be under the supervision of the Governor and shall serve in the Governor’s cabinet...," and that "The head of each principal department shall be a single executive unless otherwise provided by law." Since the LCPD is now a state agency under the authority of the Governor (and the Attorney General is the Governor's chief law enforcement officer), I have no issue concluding he could allow the LCPD's legal counsel to represent the interests of the state, as they are presumably assumed by the DOJ... much like the relationship between the DOJ-> FBI-ATF-USMS-DEA. This is the soft equivalent of letting the FBI's legal counsel represent the agencyon behalf of the DOJ.(edited)
I don't think that I would ever be in the proper position to determine the political structure of the DOJ, meaning it would be up to him who he sends as "any officer of the Department of Justice" to represent the state's interests–so long as they are licensed by the bar.
But what is clear to me is that there is simply a deference to the Solicitor General, not a mandate. That's why the AG can choose to represent the State himself in Court... or he can let the SG do it... or he can contract a private law firm to do it, as is often done by the U.S. Department of Justice for complex civil litigation. In my reading, he can certainly let the LCPD's legal counsel represent that State–assuming "Vohesia" is their counsel. I don't see how that wouldn't be possible.
Moreover, there is no contest to whether the municipal government is defunct. When it goes defunct, all of its instrumentalities are assumed by the authority of the Governor and the Senate. Mayfl. Const. art. V, § 12 mandates that "[e]ach principal department shall be under the supervision of the Governor and shall serve in the Governor’s cabinet...," and that "The head of each principal department shall be a single executive unless otherwise provided by law." Since the LCPD is now a state agency under the authority of the Governor (and the Attorney General is the Governor's chief law enforcement officer), I have no issue concluding he could allow the LCPD's legal counsel to represent the interests of the state, as they are presumably assumed by the DOJ... much like the relationship between the DOJ-> FBI-ATF-USMS-DEA. This is the soft equivalent of letting the FBI's legal counsel represent the agency
sadoimpactoMayfl. Const. art. VI, § 2 ("The Attorney General may delegate any of his authorities to his subordinates, as he prescribes."); 3 M.S.C. 1 § 8211 ("The Solicitor General, or any of...(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:59 p.m.
Well, there's no position of "legal counsel" in the LPD. That's not recognized by law.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:59 p.m.
What he can do, and he knows this, is appoint Vohesia
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 01:59 p.m.
He can easily appoint her SG or his own officer or agent
BrendaPopplewellWell, there's no position of "legal counsel" in the LPD. That's not recognized by law.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:00 p.m.
I think that is besides the point. It can be anyone with a Bar license who steps up
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:00 p.m.
Within that agency
sadoimpactoI think that is besides the point. It can be anyone with a Bar license who steps up
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:00 p.m.
He'd still have to appoint her to the DOJ so she becomes an officer of the DOJ. Otherwise he'd be exceeding the bounds instilled by that statute
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:01 p.m.
I have no issue with him doing that—except he's indicated he will not appoint her
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:01 p.m.
I would hold that he doesn't need to
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:01 p.m.
And anyways, who would challenge that?
sadoimpactoAnd anyways, who would challenge that?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:01 p.m.
No one could
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:01 p.m.
Except the court under its supervisory powers
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:02 p.m.
And I already said I found it to be a fine practice
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:02 p.m.
based on my reasoning
sadoimpactoAnd I already said I found it to be a fine practice
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:02 p.m.
But she's not actually an officer of the DOJ. There's no statute holding he can appoint any person whatsoever
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:03 p.m.
Unless I'm missing something
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:05 p.m.@meowiitten Okay. If the Court is seriously allowing Vohesia to appear on behalf of the state then I move to strike her as counsel
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:05 p.m.
And I ask that we move to chambers so I may explain why
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:06 p.m.
Does he have an interest in the case
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:06 p.m.
Vohesia?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:06 p.m.
Yes
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:06 p.m.
Sorry, they pretend to be a female so I was a little shocked
sadoimpactoDoes he have an interest in the case
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:06 p.m.
It's about a sensitive issue
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:07 p.m.
And it's not about their interest in the case
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:07 p.m.
It's about their intent to defraud this court
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:07 p.m.
and supervisory powers dictate a person must be honest to a tribunal
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:08 p.m.
I fear if I were to disclose the shocking evidence here, they would cry "privilege" and attempt to shut it down. Hence my request for an in camera hearing @meowiitten
BrendaPopplewellI fear if I were to disclose the shocking evidence here, they would cry "privilege" and attempt to shut it down. Hence my request for an in camera hearing @meowiitten
Fish 2025-05-22 02:08 p.m.
Is it abt them being an alt of mandatory
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:08 p.m.
No, but that's a very good point too
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:08 p.m.
Associate Justices can't practice law—whatever account they may be on
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.
You can save that for a judicial complaint against him whatever that may behold
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.
This is not the time for theater
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.
This is really simpler than it is made out to be
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.
But we wish to invoke the Court's supervisory powers to ensure fair litigation
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.@dero How do you want to proceed? SG or Vohesia?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.
Your honor, they will try to trick you, and I know that you cannot be tricked @meowiitten
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.
Or do you want to take over
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:10 p.m.
You should at least see the evidence before deciding
sadoimpactodero 2025-05-22 02:12 p.m.
I want to allow vohesia to represent the interests of LCPD, Your Honor
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:12 p.m.
Okay, then I ask to be heard in chambers, your honor @meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:12 p.m.
I'm sure you can decide after hearing my evidence whether you wish for Vohesia to proceed
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:12 p.m.
But I seriously doubt you would want to given the evidence I am in possession of
dero 2025-05-22 02:13 p.m.
Brenda youre treating this as if youre opposing counsel
dero 2025-05-22 02:13 p.m.
you are the government too
dero 2025-05-22 02:13 p.m.
and im telling you no
deroand im telling you no
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:13 p.m.
Well, and I respect that
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:13 p.m.
But I also have a duty of candor
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:14 p.m.
I'm not trying to undermine your authority to choose counsel here
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:14 p.m.
I'm just trying to ensure fair litigation
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:14 p.m.
Okay well… @dero are you moving to vacate the consent judgment?
sadoimpactoOkay well… @dero are you moving to vacate the consent judgment?
dero 2025-05-22 02:18 p.m.
Yes, Your Honor
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:25 p.m.MINUTE ORDER: Based on the arguments of counsel, the motion of the Attorney General, and the record herein, the Consent Judgment is VACATED and the Defendant’s Motion for Contempt is DENIED as moot. District Judge sadoimpato (Entered: 05/22/2025)
@Brenda @dero @Fish
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:26 p.m.
Would anyone like a paper order
sadoimpactoWould anyone like a paper order
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:26 p.m.
No, but I would like an in camera hearing concerning my motion to strike Vohesia as counsel so that I may fully be heard on that issue
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:27 p.m.
I don't think the Court can reasonably decide on that until it sees the evidence
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:27 p.m.
And there's no harm in such a hearing. It'll only take a few minutes
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:28 p.m.
Well
BrendaPopplewellNo, but I would like an in camera hearing concerning my motion to strike Vohesia as counsel so that I may fully be heard on that issue
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:28 p.m.
Ex parte?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 02:29 p.m.
Sure
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:30 p.m.
Okay DM me
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:57 p.m.
Matter resolved
sadoimpacto used /add
clerkFlow Bot2025-05-22 02:57 p.m. @meowiitten has added @voh ౨ৎ to the case channel.
Case Modified
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:57 p.m.@voh ౨ৎ @dero Added
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:57 p.m.
Do you need time to work on another consent judgment or are you just wishing to go to trial?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:58 p.m.
By trial I mean normal process, barring a motion to dismiss or other dispositive means
sadoimpactoDo you need time to work on another consent judgment or are you just wishing to go to trial?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 02:59 p.m.
We have no intent in entering into a consent judgement, Your Honor.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 02:59 p.m.
Alright
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 02:59 p.m.
The stance of the Department is what it has always been, Mx. Gardai has no right or claim to employment within our agency.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:01 p.m.PAPERLESS STANDING PRETRIAL AND DISCOVERY ORDER: All parties are ordered to adhere to the following pretrial timelines. The pretrial window will close ten (10) days from May 22, 2025, concluding on June 1, 2025 at 11:59 PM EST barring extension for good cause or other unforeseen delay. By May 28, 2025 at 11:59 PM EST, all parties must disclose a final draft of their exhibit lists and witness lists. Additionally, all motions in limine must be filed no later than seventy-two (72) hours before the trial, with any oppositions due twenty-four (24) hours following the filing of such motions. Trial briefs, if any, are to be submitted no later than forty-eight (48) hours before the trial. District Judge sadoimpacto (Entered: 05/22/2025)
@voh ౨ৎ @dero @Brenda @Fish
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
Fish 2025-05-22 03:02 p.m.
They havent filed a response
Fish 2025-05-22 03:02 p.m.
To my complaint
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:02 p.m.
I'll be watching this litigation very carefully, including monitoring your discovery and briefs, so I advise you to tread carefully @voh ౨ৎ
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:02 p.m.
Ah
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:02 p.m.
The whistleblower act is in full force and effect. God bless
sadoimpactosadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:02 p.m.
Vacated!
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:03 p.m.PAPERLESS ORDER: Having executed the summons contained herein upon the defendant, the defendant shall file their answer or other responsive pleading by May 28, 2025, at 3:00 PM Eastern Time. Failure to comply may result in a default judgment or other appropriate relief. District Judge sadoimpacto (Entered: 05/22/2025)
@voh ౨ৎ @dero @Brenda @Fish
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
BrendaPopplewellI'll be watching this litigation very carefully, including monitoring your discovery and briefs, so I advise you to tread carefully @voh ౨ৎ
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:03 p.m.@meowiitten May I ask who Mx. Popplewell is here representing?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
And who are they to threatan me?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
The State, apparently
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
I don't think "threatan" is an english word
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
Is that mandarin
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
Sounds like a tonal langauge
sadoimpactoThe State, apparently
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
And yes, I am here for the state
sadoimpactoThe State, apparently
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
Is the State being sued?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
The LPD is the state, yes.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
The City of Lander Police is being sued, as far as I recall.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
Not this again...
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
The LCPD is a municipal body of the City of Lander.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:04 p.m.
Ms. Vohesia(edited)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:05 p.m.
Just stop
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:05 p.m.
This court already found otherwise
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:06 p.m.
If I sue the City of Wichita am I also suing the County of Wichita? The State of Stanton? The Union of Columbia?
-# Lore note: The State of Stanton is anolguous to the State of Kansas.
-# Lore note: The State of Stanton is anolguous to the State of Kansas.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:06 p.m.
You would be suing pax britannia
voh ౨ৎIf I sue the City of Wichita am I also suing the County of Wichita? The State of Stanton? The Union of Columbia? -# Lore note: The State of Stanton is anolguous to the State of Kan...
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:07 p.m.
We established that the LCPD is a state agency per the municipality becoming defunct under the constitution (Mayfl. Const. art. III, § 7). Therefore, the LCPD has been transferred under the Office of the Governor, and to that effect, it is under the direct control of the Attorney General. You are representing the Department of Justice (also as de facto LCPD counsel) by virtue of Mayfl. Const. art. VI, § 2 ("The Attorney General may delegate any of his authorities to his subordinates, as he prescribes.") and 3 M.S.C. 1 § 8211 ("The Solicitor General, or any officer of the Department of Justice , may be sent by the Attorney General to any Court in the State of Mayflower to attend to the interests of the State of Mayflower[.]").(edited)
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:07 p.m.
Or, sorry
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:07 p.m.
You are representing the LCPD but on behalf of the DOJ
sadoimpactoWe established that the LCPD is a state agency per the municipality becoming defunct under the constitution (Mayfl. Const. art. III, § 7). Therefore, the LCPD has been transferred ...(edited)
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:11 p.m.
If I may, Your Honor, can you inform me how the Court came to the conclusion that the LCPD has been transferred to the Office of the Governor?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:11 p.m.
Mayfl. Const. art. V, § 12 only transfers the obligations of the Council and the Mayor to the Senate and Governor, respectively.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:11 p.m.
The City of Lander Police is not accountable to the Mayor, but an independent civilian Police Commission.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:11 p.m.
The Mayor of Lander has no official powers, actually.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:12 p.m.
Moreover, there is no contest to whether the municipal government is defunct. When it goes defunct, all of its instrumentalities are assumed by the authority of the Governor and the Senate. Mayfl. Const. art. V, § 12 mandates that "[e]ach principal department shall be under the supervision of the Governor and shall serve in the Governor’s cabinet...," and that "The head of each principal department shall be a single executive unless otherwise provided by law." Since the LCPD is now a state agency under the authority of the Governor (and the Attorney General is the Governor's chief law enforcement officer), I have no issue concluding he could allow the LCPD's legal counsel to represent the interests of the state, as they are presumably assumed by the DOJ... much like the relationship between the DOJ-> FBI-ATF-USMS-DEA. This is the soft equivalent of letting the FBI's legal counsel represent the agency on behalf of the DOJ.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:12 p.m.
Let's keep this pandora's box closed, Ms. Vohesia
sadoimpactoMoreover, there is no contest to whether the municipal government is defunct. When it goes defunct, all of its instrumentalities are assumed by the authority of the Governor and ...
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:13 p.m.
Each principle department of the State, I would assume. If not, then bodies like the Mersea Police or County Sheriff would be part of the Governor's Cabinet, would they not?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:15 p.m.
I would not say they're a principal department, but that's a debate for another time
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:15 p.m.
They're just assumed into the state executive
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:16 p.m.
As a component of the DOJ under the authority of the AG, since he is the chief law enforcement officer
sadoimpactoAs a component of the DOJ under the authority of the AG, since he is the chief law enforcement officer
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:17 p.m.
What then of the independent civilian Police Commission created by the Central Authority to lead and administer LCPD, Your Honor?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:18 p.m.
I'm a member of that commission and it's literally dead
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:18 p.m.
I don't know what "lead[ing]" and "administer[ing]" sweet Ms. Vohesia is referring to
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:18 p.m.
We haven't done anything since.... months at this point I believe
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:18 p.m.@voh ౨ৎ @meowiitten
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:19 p.m.
Perhaps some elaboration would be in order for his honorable excellence?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:19 p.m.
Well
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:19 p.m.
If that were true then I believe this case should be removed to federal court, no?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 03:19 p.m.
:)
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:19 p.m.
HELP
BrendaPopplewellI'm a member of that commission and it's literally dead
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:20 p.m.
...?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:20 p.m.
No you are not?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:20 p.m.
What?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:21 p.m.
Hm. That's interesting
@meowiitten @voh ౨ৎ
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:21 p.m.
That's me right there, isn't it?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:22 p.m.
The Civilian Commission on Policing is not the Lander City Police Commission.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:22 p.m.
I believe my co-counsel is struggling with her recollection
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:22 p.m.
You are making factual misrepresentations to the Court.
BrendaPopplewellHm. That's interesting @meowiitten @voh ౨ৎ
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:22 p.m.
Says right here "Civilian Commission on Policing"
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:22 p.m.
And to the right, that's my name
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:22 p.m.
Is it not, Ms. Vohesia? @voh ౨ৎ
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:22 p.m.
Am I hallucinating
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:23 p.m.
The Civilian Commission on Policing is not the Police Commission for the LCPD.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:23 p.m.
Anywho, let's get to work. We have answers to write, briefs to file, and discovery to make ready @voh ౨ৎ
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:23 p.m.
It is a body created under this now-defunct EO. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iBB_iSt1R7Fvq4wZVJwG35E301bTx20V/view?usp=sharing
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:23 p.m.
No no.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:23 p.m.
You just lied to the Court.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:23 p.m.
Don't we, Ms. Vohesia?
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:23 p.m.
That's your opinion. I just presented the evidence
voh ౨ৎYou just lied to the Court.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:24 p.m.
Why that's a dramatic accusation
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 03:24 p.m.@meowiitten I need image permissions.
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:25 p.m.
Gyazo exists, I believe
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:25 p.m.@voh ౨ৎ
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 03:25 p.m.
Are you in possession of Gyazo
dero 2025-05-22 04:47 p.m.@meowiitten Your Honor, I am going to respectfully ask that you remove BrendaPopplewell from this case. I am not longer permitting them to represent the government in this matter. They just cant seem to work well with Lander Police
BrendaPopplewell 2025-05-22 04:48 p.m.@meowiitten I would object to that
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 04:48 p.m.
Alright
BrendaPopplewellvoh ౨ৎ 2025-05-22 04:49 p.m.
I wouldn't.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-22 04:49 p.m.
Unfortunately I must respect the decision of the AG @Brenda
sadoimpacto used /remove
clerkFlow Bot2025-05-22 04:49 p.m. @meowiitten has removed @Brenda from the case channel.
Case Modified
Fish 2025-05-22 07:21 p.m.@meowiitten
I have troubling information about opposing counsel vohesia that is likely to result in their disqualification from this proceeding. I am requesting an ex parte in camera conference to present the Court with this information, and request that the contents of the conference are sealed.
I also have an affidavit from another individual, with supporting evidence enclosed, which I wish to submit under seal so that it is reviewed by you only due to the potential for retaliation. This individual is also open to the Court questioning them, if need be.
I have troubling information about opposing counsel vohesia that is likely to result in their disqualification from this proceeding. I am requesting an ex parte in camera conference to present the Court with this information, and request that the contents of the conference are sealed.
I also have an affidavit from another individual, with supporting evidence enclosed, which I wish to submit under seal so that it is reviewed by you only due to the potential for retaliation. This individual is also open to the Court questioning them, if need be.
Fishsadoimpacto 2025-05-22 07:27 p.m.
DM me I suppose
Fish 2025-05-22 07:27 p.m.
Okay
shah 2025-05-23 09:45 a.m.NOTICE OF REFERRAL TO STATE BAR
@Brenda
This notice is to formally inform you that, due to your continued failure to upload case-related documents via the required electronic terminal as stipulated in the Local Rules of this Court this matter will now be referred to the Mayflower State Bar for further review.
You were previously advised on the 22nd to submit the necessary filings through the proper system. To date, no satisfactory compliance has been recorded, and no reasonable justification has been provided.
Any matters in re this topic should now be addressed to the State Bar.
4/19 Governments Answer
4/19 Amended Governments Answwer
5/4 Consent Judgement
5/9 Consent Judgment
This notice is issued under the authority of Prothonotary Ashley Pueri.
Cc: All parties of record, State Bar
This notice is to formally inform you that, due to your continued failure to upload case-related documents via the required electronic terminal as stipulated in the Local Rules of this Court this matter will now be referred to the Mayflower State Bar for further review.
You were previously advised on the 22nd to submit the necessary filings through the proper system. To date, no satisfactory compliance has been recorded, and no reasonable justification has been provided.
Any matters in re this topic should now be addressed to the State Bar.
4/19 Governments Answer
4/19 Amended Governments Answwer
5/4 Consent Judgement
5/9 Consent Judgment
This notice is issued under the authority of Prothonotary Ashley Pueri.
Cc: All parties of record, State Bar
sadoimpacto 2025-05-24 03:46 p.m.@Brenda @voh ౨ৎ Reminder to submit an answer by 5/28
sadoimpacto 2025-05-25 11:46 a.m.@Brenda @voh ౨ৎ Reminder to submit an answer by 5/28
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 04:03 p.m.@voh ౨ৎ @Brenda Are you asking me to retain the government's 4/19 answer
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 04:03 p.m.
I didn't see it last time
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 04:04 p.m.@dero
Fish 2025-05-28 05:39 p.m.@meowiitten I move for default
Fish 2025-05-28 05:39 p.m.
The 4/19 answer is not even up to date
Fish 2025-05-28 05:39 p.m.
I've amended the complaint since then
Fishvoh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:41 p.m.
Be quiet, Jew.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:41 p.m.@meowiitten The City of Lander apologises substantially for this delay.
Fish 2025-05-28 05:41 p.m.
...
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:41 p.m.
I've been without internet all day.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:41 p.m.
I'm finalizing the Answer and it'll be submitted within the hour.
voh ౨ৎBe quiet, Jew.
Fish 2025-05-28 05:42 p.m.@meowiitten I move for contempt this is disrespectful and I am not a Jew.
voh ౨ৎBe quiet, Jew.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 05:42 p.m.
Refrain please
sadoimpactoRefrain please
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:43 p.m.
Your Honor, being Jewish is something to be revered.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:43 p.m.
Almost all my clients are Jewish.
Fishvoh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:43 p.m.
Why would calling someone a Jew be disrespectful? Are you anti-semetic?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:43 p.m.
Do you think being Jewish is something to be ashamed of?
Fish 2025-05-28 05:44 p.m.
0/10 Ragebait
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:44 p.m.
Ok so you think being Jewish is just a joke now.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:44 p.m.
I see.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:45 p.m.
As a member of the CIPAC Legal Defense Team, I take grave offense to @Fish charecterizing the Jewish faith as "bait" and disrespectful.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:45 p.m.@meowiitten I move for an Order to Show Cause.
Fish 2025-05-28 05:45 p.m.
We move for contempt for vohesia for frivolous motions intended to waste this Court's time and defying this Court's order to refrain from engaging in this conduct.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 05:58 p.m.@meowiitten I cannot file on the website
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 06:00 p.m.PAPERLESS STANDING PRETRIAL AND DISCOVERY ORDER: All parties are ordered to adhere to the following pretrial timelines. The pretrial window will close ten (10) days from May 28, 2025, concluding on June 7, 2025, at 11:59 PM EST barring extension for good cause or other unforeseen delay. By June 2, 2025, at 11:59 PM EST, all parties must disclose a final draft of their exhibit lists and witness lists. Additionally, all motions in limine must be filed no later than seventy-two (72) hours before the trial, with any oppositions due twenty-four (24) hours following the filing of such motions. Trial briefs, if any, are to be submitted no later than forty-eight (48) hours before the trial. District Judge sadoimpacto (Entered: 05/28/2025)
@voh ౨ৎ @dero @Brenda @Fish
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
FishWe move for contempt for vohesia for frivolous motions intended to waste this Court's time and defying this Court's order to refrain from engaging in this conduct.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 06:01 p.m.
You will never be a City of Lander Police Department Officer. You have no badge, you have no belt, you have no gun. You are a LETI graduate twisted by BrendaPopplewell and your own infalted self-worth into a crude mockery of nature’s perfection.
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your sad attempts behind closed doors.
Criminals are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed men to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Your physiognomy is a dead giveaway - it is that of a failed applicant, not a LCPD Officer. And even if you manage to get a criminal cuffed, he’ll turn tail and LTAA the second he gets a whiff of how you had to sue to try to get into a Department.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your sad attempts behind closed doors.
Criminals are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed men to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Your physiognomy is a dead giveaway - it is that of a failed applicant, not a LCPD Officer. And even if you manage to get a criminal cuffed, he’ll turn tail and LTAA the second he gets a whiff of how you had to sue to try to get into a Department.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
sadoimpactovoh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 06:02 p.m.
Reciept acknowledged, thank you, Your Honour.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 09:04 p.m.@meowiitten I move for summary judgement.
voh ౨ৎsadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:06 p.m.@Fish Any objection(edited)
Fish 2025-05-28 09:14 p.m.
Yes
Fish 2025-05-28 09:14 p.m.
There are clear material facts in dispute
FishThere are clear material facts in dispute
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:23 p.m.
Did you produce discovery to the court
sadoimpactoDid you produce discovery to the court
Fish 2025-05-28 09:26 p.m.
No we just got in pretrial
Fish 2025-05-28 09:26 p.m.
I certainly plan on doing so and plan on producing some discovery motions
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:26 p.m.
Well I'm more curious if relief can even be provided in this case, quite honestly, unless we clarify some things
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:27 p.m.@Fish By specific performance, do you mean simply the act of employment, or also retention?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:27 p.m.
Like you want them to hire you
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:28 p.m.
As part of your relief
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:28 p.m.
And you want them to retain you as well?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:28 p.m.
Or do you concede they can terminate you
Fish 2025-05-28 09:28 p.m.
Retain
Fish 2025-05-28 09:28 p.m.
The point of hiring someone is to retain them
Fish 2025-05-28 09:29 p.m.@meowiitten Please add my counsel @Brenda
FishThe point of hiring someone is to retain them
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:30 p.m.
Well for that matter I'm unsure I can grant the relief you want, which is why I'm inclined to grant summary judgment
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:30 p.m.
And I would explain why in my opinion
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:30 p.m.
In great detail
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:30 p.m.
As one would expect
Fish 2025-05-28 09:30 p.m.
Well can you add my counsel
Fish 2025-05-28 09:30 p.m.
BrendaPopplewell
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:32 p.m.
I mean
Fish 2025-05-28 09:32 p.m.
I think also actually they should be hiring me but are free to at will me in the future
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:33 p.m.
If I allowed him back in this case I would be allowing him to put his Bar license in jeopardy
Fish 2025-05-28 09:33 p.m.
I waived any COI
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:33 p.m.
The government didn't
Fish 2025-05-28 09:33 p.m.
Well if u add brenda im sure she can explain why her representation is proper at least
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:34 p.m.
"An attorney who has formerly represented a client in a matter shall not thereafter represent another person in the same or a substantially related matter in which the person’s interests are materially adverse to the interests of the former client unless the former client gives informed consent." Rule 1.9 Duties to Former Clients
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:35 p.m.
"Except as law may otherwise expressly permit, an attorney who has formerly served as a public official or employee of the government: ... shall not otherwise represent a client in connection with a matter in which the attorney participated personally and substantially as a public official or employee, unless the appropriate government agency gives its informed consent to the representation. This paragraph shall not apply to matters governed by rule 1.12(a)." Rule 1.11 Special Conflicts of Interest for Former and Current Government Officials and Employees
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:36 p.m.
So the addition of counsel is denied, otherwise I'd have to report them to the Bar for violating ethical rules
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:36 p.m.
And perhaps myself for allowing it to happen
Fish 2025-05-28 09:37 p.m.
So is allowing an alternate account to represent the defendant not some sort of violation that you can block then?
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:37 p.m.
(1) That was unsubstantiated and (2) I told you not to go there
Fish 2025-05-28 09:37 p.m.
I’m simply asking and I provided proof but ok.
Fish 2025-05-28 09:38 p.m.
I also want to clarify (i think i already did) i am just seeking employment and they are free to at will me in the future
Fish 2025-05-28 09:38 p.m.
provided ofc that the at will is not prohibited by law
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:38 p.m.
Even then I don't think it would be a proper remedy to you
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:39 p.m.
And then that puts them at a substantial risk of future legal action
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:39 p.m.
Where they have the sword of this case at their throat(edited)
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
sadoimpactoWell... how would the LCPD be expected to honor a consent judgment that requires the specific performance of employment... and presumably retention... when our constitutional and...
sadoimpacto 2025-05-28 09:42 p.m.
This is essentially how I see this case going, if relief is granted:
(1) declaratory relief undermining the Attorney General's inherent authority to hire and fire per the constitution and statutes, in-part;
(2) injunctive relief barring a constitutionally fashioned power; and
(3) circular harm to the government virtually on the same grounds as points 1 and 2
(1) declaratory relief undermining the Attorney General's inherent authority to hire and fire per the constitution and statutes, in-part;
(2) injunctive relief barring a constitutionally fashioned power; and
(3) circular harm to the government virtually on the same grounds as points 1 and 2
FishSo is allowing an alternate account to represent the defendant not some sort of violation that you can block then?
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 09:55 p.m.
Ok I'm really done with these defamatory statements at this point.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 09:55 p.m.
Either produce proof to back up your claims, or I move for contempt of Mx. Gardai.
voh ౨ৎ 2025-05-28 09:55 p.m.@meowiitten
Fish 2025-05-29 06:06 p.m.@meowiitten You can dismiss this without prejudice I’m not interested in pursuing this anymore
Fish 2025-05-29 06:06 p.m.
Nor do I have the time
UserMessage could not be loaded.
Fish 2025-05-29 06:08 p.m.
My username is JamesGardai not James_Gardai
sadoimpacto 2025-05-29 06:08 p.m.
Will be corrected!
sadoimpacto 2025-05-29 06:09 p.m.MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER
@voh ౨ৎ @Fish @dero
meowiitten pinned a message to this channel.2025-06-21 09:04 p.m.
sadoimpacto used /transcript
clerkFlow Bot2025-05-29 06:11 p.m.
Creating transcript..
clerkFlow Bot2025-05-29 06:11 p.m.
https://discord.com/channels/1274202187911790632/1329678726383927409/1377771476937080935 Successfully created transcript.
clerkFlow Bot2025-05-29 06:11 p.m.
https://discord.com/channels/1274202187911790632/1329678726383927409/1377771479693004972 Successfully created transcript.
sadoimpacto 2025-05-29 06:12 p.m.@Prothonotary of Court Archive!
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